to be sick of people on FB comparing Syrian refugees to the Jewish refugees

[paintandbrush]

Please stop bandying about the terms 'Kindertransport', 'Operation Pied Piper' and so on because I've studied the Holocaust extensively, and it's not actually the same, ok?

This article says it all better than I can, please read: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12130175/The-plight-of-Syrian-refugees-is-not-on-a-par-with-Jews-fleeing-the-Nazis.html

For the record, I really don't believe we should be bombing them to hell in the first place: in this day and age, wars are not won in the towns and fields of North Africa. Wars are won round a conference table somewhere in Switzerland.

The whole attitude of Cameron's government at the minute seems to be "Let's make their homeland hell on earth, then pat ourselves on the back for letting, say, 10% of them into the UK". What a bloody mess.

Stating that they are minorities and are persecuted doesn't alter the fact that they are not in MORE danger than Sunnis. Got it yet?

The only legitimate refugees coming from a war zone last year were the Syrians and Iraqis. Not Eritreans, North Africans, Ivory Coast, Nigerians etc etc.

All those escaping war, or indeed escaping their country for whatever reason, should be given sanctuary but not in Europe. The West did not prepare itself well for the mass movement, otherwise they could have built an infrastructure to take care of health-shelter-food-schools etc. If that had been done, I guarantee that the majority would continue to scream and holler to get into Europe. Why? Because war has given them the opportunity to get to Europe and reap benefits available in the West. Once out of a war zone, the refugees’ main priority becomes living in the West – not staying in a safe place provided by the West.

Two of my cousins are solicitors in the asylum industry (and it is an industry). Many solicitors are choosing to specialise in Immigration because that is where the govt money is. I know of several who have retrained specifically for that reason.

Those on this forum calling for all refugees to be allowed to settle in Europe are either living in a dreamworld or they hate the West very much. As a poster said, they think the West is responsible for everything bad. This country cannot take more. Simple calculation: 1 refugee is taken into Europe, and 3 years later he is joined by wife and parents. That one place has already grown to 4. 1.2 million NI numbers in GB have been issued which does not tally with immigration applications.

Lurked said:
“You want a number? Ok, maybe we can't match Germany (although I don't see why not) So why don't we just go a little bit better than the French and take 80,000. That might get past all of those who would start quaking in their boots at actually helping someone. I'd go for the EU average my self and per 100,000 of the population that would give us 169,000 refugees, not many, not too costly.”

Is that a one-off, Lurked, or annually? You do realise how vast a country both Germany and France are, don’t you? How can the island of UK match Germany, FGS!? Keeping in mind my simple calculation above, 169k tripled would become 507,000 or 676,000 incl the original refugee – and that’s not even mentioning sibs and children that will be born.

The Jews and E. Europeans were targeted by Hitler. What we have going on currently is sectarian fighting to the death based not on ethnicity but on religion, and spreads across many, many countries that cannot be scooped up and deposited into a much smaller continent.

No they really, really are. If you are a Sunni living in an Isis-controlled area you might not like it but if you keep a low profile and go along with things you will survive. If you are a Christian you convert or die. If you are a Yazidi you will be killed or sold as a sex slave to fighters. Do you get it yet? Not all refugees are fleeing Assad; a great number are fleeing Isis-controlled areas.

Here is an interview with the lead singer of the band who were playing Bataclan, in which people were killed.

takimag.com/article/surrendering_to_death_gavin_mcinnes#axzz48xRVKJBn

I'm blown away by how smart this guy, Jesse Hughes, is. It was an inside job and, as the massacre was going on, people outside were rejoicing.

Cooly skimming over those barrel bombs again, shins and those small matters of rape, torture and starvation. Sunnis are the most likely to be bombed so it is ludicrous to say Yazidis are in more danger. Both groups are in different sorts of danger, Yazidis in more danger? No.

I am Muslim though not practising. Let me explain to you, emily.

Sunni is Orthodox Islam. It is huge in Indonesia and Pakistan. Followers of this part of Islam believe they are correct but others (Shia and Ahmadi) are heretics. ISIS is made up only of Sunni. The Sunnis have taken Yazidi women as sexual prisoners, and they do routinely kill Christians, Shia and Buddhist.

If you are a Sunni man and ISIS comes to your city, you and your family will survive if you play the game by pretending to agree with them (perhaps some do anyway). Basically, everyone is persona non grata to a radicalised Sunni.

That doesn't add anything to the claim that Yazidis are in MORE danger in Syria Shakeeba.

'The Sunnis have taken Yazidi women as sexual prisoners, and they do routinely kill Christians, Shia and Buddhist'.

No, Isis have and you are wrong about Sunnis being safe around Isis. They chop off their heads or kill them too if they don't agree with them.

That doesn't add anything to the claim that Yazidis are in MORE danger in Syria Shakeeba.

'The Sunnis have taken Yazidi women as sexual prisoners, and they do routinely kill Christians, Shia and Buddhist'.

No, Isis have and you are wrong about Sunnis being safe around Isis. They chop off their heads or kill them too if they don't agree with them.

Yes but Sunnis have the option of agreeing with them. Christians don't and Yazidis don't even get to convert or pay the "jizya". They are enslaved, raped and murdered BECAUSE THEY ARE YAZIDIS. That's the obvious parallel with Jews in the 1930s, many of whom were not religious.

I think you are being unreasonable.

When I was about twelve or thirteen I read Anne Frank's Diary. To be honest, it had very little effect on me at all emotionally at that time.

I read it again recently and was absolutely in tears by the time I had finished. It was on my mind for weeks afterwards.

I think the reason for this difference in my reaction is that when I read the Diary as a young person, I saw everything that she described as ancient history. Plenty of hideous things have happened in history that (hopefully) wouldn't happen today. For that reason, it didn't seem particularly relateable.

When I read it recently I read the passages regarding how attitudes towards the Jews changed during Europe before Anne went into hiding and it was just so shockingly similar to attitudes I have heard expressed towards the Syrian refugees (this was before the picture of the toddler washed up on the beach was published - I think there has been a bit of a change in public opinion since this). It hit too close to home. The world hasn't moved on at all: there is still that level of cruelty and hatred in society. The methods used to turn one part of society towards another, weaker part remain the same. People have learned nothing from history.

Keep reaching, shins. They don't have the option to agree with them.Isis don't give options.

The Sunnis, as well as other Muslims, Christians and other groups are bombarded with bombs, tortured, raped, starved to death and imprisoned by a brutal dictator. There's a fair few parallels there.

No they do. Are you suggesting that Isis simply move into a town and kill every single person there? Everyone? What purpose would that serve? They're trying to establish a caliphate. They need people ffs. You're like someone trying to claim that because ordinary Germans were also persecuted by the Nazis and killed in bombing raids, the Jews had no special claim to being the victims of genocide. I never claimed Sunnis weren't the victims of attacks. "Keep reaching"? What are you on about?

edition.cnn.com/2014/08/08/world/meast/iraq-ethnic-groups-under-threat-isis/

"The Sunni militant group ISIS, which calls itself the Islamic State, has steamrolled into Iraq's north, forcing hundreds of thousands of minorities from their homes. The militants have beheaded some who won't bend to their will and are "putting people's heads on spikes" to terrorize others, a senior U.S. administration official said"

www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/19/iraq-isis-abducting-killing-expelling-minorities

The Islamic State of Iraq and Sham (ISIS) is killing, kidnapping, and threatening religious and ethnic minorities in and around the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Since capturing Mosul on June 10, 2014, the armed Sunni extremist group has seized at least 200 Turkmen, Shabaks, and Yazidis, killed at least 11 of them, and ordered all Christians to convert to Islam, pay “tribute” money, or leave Mosul by July 19.

On June 29, ISIS abducted two nuns and three Christian orphans, whom it held for 15 days. Around that same time, ISIS issued orders barring Yazidi and Christian employees, as well as ethnic Kurds, from returning to their government jobs in Mosul, two regional government officials and a priest told Human Rights Watch.

Virtually all Turkmen and Shabaks – tens of thousands of families – have fled their communities near Mosul as a result of ISIS raids, in which the fighters seize local men and pillage homes and places of worship, residents of those villages said. Mosul’s few remaining Christian families also have fled, local priests said.

'I've a very very strong feeling that somehow or other the problem never occurs in the same way you expect it. In other words, I don't think there'll be another holocaust as such, but it'll be something different. '

Ivor Perl, holocaust survivor.

"the Jews had no special claim to being the victims of genocide"

They have no special claim to be the victims of genocide, anymore than the Romany gypsies, the disabled, the political opponents, or the Polish "intelligentsia" (anyone educated). They were the majority yes, but they have no special claim to say its just them or that they are the most important. They have no claim to be "special" anymore than the Boer women and children do from our war in South Africa, or those massacred by Pol Pot, or those sent to the gulags by Stalin, the disappeared of Chille or anyone else.

Wow, lurked. You've revealed a lot there.

'I never claimed Sunnis weren't the victims of attacks. "Keep reaching"? What are you on about?'

You are trying to claim that Yazidis are more at risk than the Sunnis. It isn't true.

'You're like someone trying to claim that because ordinary Germans were also persecuted by the Nazis and killed in bombing raids, the Jews had no special claim to being the victims of genocide'.

Also untrue and an attempt to minimise the fact that Syrians of all kinds, including Sunnis, are targeted by their own government,in bombings, rapings, imprisonments and tortures. So whilst the persecution of Yazidis is equally bad, no religious group should be given preferential treatment in contravention of international law.

You have tried to minimise the incidence of attacks on Sunnis and the danger presented by Assad and his range of weaponry, which is really quite bizarre. Sunnis and Yazidis seem equally susceptible to genocide right now. Quibbling over who is suffering the most is rather crude.

'Reaching' in this context is somene trying to make a point based on very little evidence, as you have.

Quibbling over who is suffering the most is rather crude

Yet you constantly assert that the thousands of fit, fed, physically healthy, solvent enough to pay smugglers and canny enough to demand passage to countries of their choice young men are 'desperate' to the exclusion of any other group on the planet.

I have never seen reference to Indian orphans, for example.

Your hierarchy of 'deserving', about which you have banged on the drum for almost six months now leaves no doubt at all whom you believe to deserve sympathy, aid, free passage etc.

There's no quibbling over suffering; no other group exists.

It's certainly crude.

'When I read it recently I read the passages regarding how attitudes towards the Jews changed during Europe before Anne went into hiding and it was just so shockingly similar to attitudes I have heard expressed 'towards the Syrian refugees (this was before the picture of the toddler washed up on the beach was published - I think there has been a bit of a change in public opinion since this). It hit too close to home. The world hasn't moved on at all: there is still that level of cruelty and hatred in society. The methods used to turn one part of society towards another, weaker part remain the same. People have learned nothing from history.'

Ifgrand, I agree.

Its certainly not anti Semitic, sorry, the jews have a large claim but they are not the only group to have been victims of genocide, it has gone on for a long time. Kurds in Iraq, Kurds in Turkey etc.

Around 2.7 million Polish Christians were murdered by the Nazi's, not killed in battle, but dragged out of town and shot, there was then the culutura genocide, the "Germanisation" of Poland etc.

Of course what they did to the Jews was awful, but it is not the only thing, to claim that pointing this out is anti semitic is poor arguing.

I completely agree with Fanakapan

"Yet you constantly assert that the thousands of fit, fed, physically healthy, solvent enough to pay smugglers and canny enough to demand passage to countries of their choice young men are 'desperate' to the exclusion of any other group on the planet."

Yes because these are the only ones who are coming ? There are thousands upon thousands of children, women and all else who are refugees.

Commenting that "young healthy solvent men" is yet another way of tarring all with the same brush, its incorrect.

A Christian and a Jew stands before an SS officer. Who do you think, emily, will be the first for the chop? Get a grip. ISIS members can only be Sunni. An Isis patrol coming into a town will first pick out the heathens. Then they will go and assess the cooperation of Sunnis in that town. The Sunnis that have been beheaded are ex-military men and police, which to ISIS is tantamount to 'working for the man'.

Turkmen and Shabaks

These are ethnic groups, not religious ones and are generally Sunni. You really need to stop relying on Google.

As for Sunnis have a choice, what choice did Muath Al Kasabeh have about his fate? Or any of the other Sunnis living ISIS occupied areas.

This still of course, doesn't solve the problem of what the majority of Syrians (Sunni and otherwise) are meant to do about Assad's aerial bombardments.