Both claim their version is true. Which one is right?
See? It's not that hard is it?
You have not paid attention to the basic tenets of the faith
Bloody hell emily. It’s amazing. You’ve managed to solve hundreds of years of theological debate and bloody conflict in a few sentences in a post on Mumsnet. You’re a genius!
Seriously though. You seem to be struggling with the concept of religions as something metaphysical. They only exist in people’s minds. If people didn’t believe in religions or interpret and implement them they wouldn’t exist.
Unless we have some sort of apocalyptic religious event when the truth is suddenly revealed then there is no true version of any religion. Only lots of different versions of what different people believe to be true.
So for what Salafis believe to be dismissed as ‘not true Islam’ cannot be any more true than a Salafi dismissing Sufism as ‘not true Islam’ because it’s impossible to know who is right. 'Basic tenets of the faith' are something which is subjective rather than definite. This is what causes the problems with religions you see. Everybody thinks they are right and there is no possible way of finding out who is actually in possession of the truth so either this leads to endless conflict or (as is the case with most of Christianity today) a pragmatic agreement to agree to disagree.
No. Lots of priests and paramilitaries calling on religious rhetoric during the Bosnian war didn't mean their interpretation of Christianity was 'true' either.
Well yes it did actually. It was a true representation of mainstream Orthodox Christianity subscribed to by Serbians during that period in time and in that location. And it wouldn’t have been particularly helpful to any Bosnian Muslims being shot in Sarajevo to be told that they shouldn’t really worry about what was happening as it ‘wasn’t true Christianity’ any more than it is helpful to tell people on the sharp end of Muslim fundamentalist violence that actually they don’t have to worry about the fact that someone is about to throw them in a vat of nitric acid and dissolve them like a human disprin because it’s doesn’t matter because it’s ‘not true Islam’. It wouldn’t have been helpful to tell Bosnian families they shouldn’t have to worry about that extreme interpretation being implemented and practiced in a way which would endanger them and their families any more than it helps someone European and worried about extremist Islam’s threat that they shouldn’t worry because it’s not ‘true Islam’.
As I have stated, you must examine their ideology and interpretation of texts in order to determine if they fit the defining principles and 'end goal.' of Islam. They don't.
No emily, you have chosen to decide that one interpretation of the end goals and principles of Islam is right and theirs is wrong. You have decided that as they don’t fit in with that interpretation of Islam it can’t be ‘true Islam’. But the version of Islam you are endorsing has no more claim to proof or indisputability to any other. As usual, you are getting opinion and fact mixed up. And you’re entering a circular argument about what is true and what is not true that has no answer and can’t be answered. And believe me, this is an argument that people far more informed, knowledgeable and intelligent than you have not been able to solve.
So for the purposes of what ‘true’ Islam is, we can only take what is actually done in the name of that religion at any given time as the true face of that religion. And much of that right now is violence, persecution and oppression. And moderate versions of Islam like Sufism losing influence and power to extreme versions like Salafism and Wahabbism. Certainly in terms of the way Muslim states and power structures are moving, that’s almost exclusively going towards conservative and extreme forms of Islam rather than moving towards what you claim is ‘true Islam’. It’s head burying stuff.
And donating to relief efforts or helping with a flood clean up doesn't negate evil acts any more than Anders Brevik putting a pound into a cancer research jar would suddenly absolve him of guilt. Incidentally the teenagers who helped with the flood clean up are Amadiyyah Muslims, who an awful lot of Muslims would like to see wiped out and whose persecution is sanctioned and codified and the Pakistani consititution.
And some European girl who doesn't know much about Islam sitting behind a computer in Eastern Europe who doesn't know much about Islam frantically googling for anything which says otherwise. doesn't mean it's not Islam
Why not just engage with the point Bill? Where I live and who I am have no impact on the question of what is true Islam.
Well yes it does emily, if you really can’t see why someone in your situation lecturing people on what the true meaning of Islam is and demanding that their googled up interpretation is accepted as fact is more than a little risible then there is absolutely no hope for you.
As I and other posters have repeatedly pointed out, it’s almost impossible to find a Muslim majority state where Islam is not used as justification of some pretty appalling behaviour in terms of the oppression of women, gays, other religions, minority sects etc, etc, etc. Yet we’re expected to pretend that isn’t what Islam is all about. Despite the fact these societies aren’t resisting it and seem to be pretty happy and comfortable with it. All because some people who aren’t actually Muslims have decided we all have to pretend none of this is happening and pretend a version of Islam which has largely been imagined by sympathetic Westerners is the true Islam. Despite the fact that large numbers of Muslims are very clearly and very loudly telling us that this isn’t the Islam as they perceive it.
Really, the situation drips with irony when you consider that the same people who accuse others of racism are the ones who want to ignore the voices of large numbers of Muslims themselves when they tell us what they believe in favour of a Westernised, sanitised imagined version that they’ve validated purely because it’s what’s most convenient to them as a ‘liberal’ Westerner who doesn’t want to have to face up to the fact that extremist Islam is a real and challenging threat. It's rather like people in the 19th century who insisted that black people quite liked slavery actually even when the actual black people themselves were saying something quite different.
Actually, Europe moved away from the literal interpretation of their religious texts because they went through a period of terrible oppression in the name of religion, fought for personal liberty, and brought about the Enlightenment. Much blood was spilt for this end result.