to be sick of people on FB comparing Syrian refugees to the Jewish refugees

[paintandbrush]

Please stop bandying about the terms 'Kindertransport', 'Operation Pied Piper' and so on because I've studied the Holocaust extensively, and it's not actually the same, ok?

This article says it all better than I can, please read: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12130175/The-plight-of-Syrian-refugees-is-not-on-a-par-with-Jews-fleeing-the-Nazis.html

For the record, I really don't believe we should be bombing them to hell in the first place: in this day and age, wars are not won in the towns and fields of North Africa. Wars are won round a conference table somewhere in Switzerland.

The whole attitude of Cameron's government at the minute seems to be "Let's make their homeland hell on earth, then pat ourselves on the back for letting, say, 10% of them into the UK". What a bloody mess.

'There are men pretending to be children, in my opinion it sounds like psychological abuse, or some kind of learning disability to deny this fact'

I think you know perfectly well what you were inferring, howto, but would you like to clarify who the mysterious denier of facts is if you're not referring to anyone onthis thread? Newspaper editors? Politicians?

Why would having 'some kind of disability' lead someone to deny 'facts',as you see them? There are all kinds of disabilities and learning disabilities.Is there one in particular that you think leads to people denying facts?

Why are you asking for clarification, when you claim to have magical mind reading abilities. Where are the quotes to back up your claims?

I'm at a loss to understand how small children have got to France from Syria without adult carers.

I haven't seen Pont do anything of the sort, Bill. Do you have anything to say about the op or do you just want to launch a personal attack?

Howto, you are making slurs about people with learning disabilities.

This is one reason making such a comparison might be unhelpful- because then we are left examining what is the same, what is different, when perhaps the main focus might be- what can be done in this case?

I see boris is now comparing the ambitions of the eu with hitler. What is it with ex London mayors?!

Emily, no you are.

I'm Jewish and I can understand the comparisons. And I also agree that Europe was very wary and not delighted with the Jewish influxes at the turn of the last century and during/after the war.

I've seen so many programmes on TV and read so many articles now of Syrian homes and towns, raised to the ground (surely a scorched earth policy), and people living in desperate fear, not enough food, no medical facilities - just a living hell (both over there and in the insanitary camps in Europe).

There's no need to compare their suffering to the Jews or anyone else's - they're going through the most unimaginable things and deserve every bit of help, refuge and acceptance going. That's all that matters surely. And regarding going back once things have settled down, looking at the news reports/documentaries - there is literally NOTHING there but crumbling bricks.

Really Morris?

Their carers may have drowned.

They ay havetravelled with an older realtive that they became separated from.

By the way, 'large' children also suffer from cold, grief, trauma, hunger and being completely alone. I hope you know that.

I am still a bit mystified why questioning and rejecting the comparison - as the op did- was seen as so unreasonable.

Still no quotes to back up your various 'ist' claims, just your interpretation and 'knowing' what they meant.

Nice bit of dog whistling there Bill.

You criticise and smear moderate Islamic organisations, you minimise or justify the actions of Islamic extremists. You've made some 'interesting' comments on threads concerning anti-semitism.

Those are quite serious allegations, for which I would like to see some proof.

However

1. Stating that the Assad regime and their allies are responsible for the greatest numbers of deaths in Syria is a statement of fact.

2. The only "moderate Islamic organisation" I criticised on here is the Quilliam Foundation. I will stand by that, as there is no evidence that they have achieved anything and they seem to only exist as a self vehicle for Majid Nawaz.

3. It seems you can't argue against anything I've said on a factual basis, so you are trying to smear me as an anti-semite instead.

Feel free to post those "interesting comments" here with a link to what thread they've come from to show your proof.

You won't find any.

Unfortunately, people persist in missing the salient and yet central point that even if we let every single one of the unfortunate people in Calais in, by the next week, there would be another lot.

I think the situation in Europe is more comparable to the UK in the 1930s throwing open the doors to any Germans no questions asked regardless of whether they themselves were anti-Semites or Nazis.

That really is utter nonsense.

The perception that Syrian child refugees consist of "a collection of young men making their way here claiming to be 17 with no ID" is, quite simply, inaccurate, and I'm afraid that it is symptomatic of the type of person who is trying to justify their bigotry to themselves. It is in fact worryingly similar to people who closed their eyes to Jewish persecution in the 1930s and justified it by making up stories about Jewish greed and the like. So the comparison is entirely justifiable.

It's not a salient point, Kate. The notion that people can be encouraged or dissauded from leaving a war zone is bizarre and illogical.

There was also reluctance from Europe to help Bosnian war refugees. Many of them had to resort to people smugglers and illegal means to flee to safety. Some were interrogated and mistreated as refugees are now, so of course the holocaust is not the only event in history the present situation can be compared to. Not enough was done for them either.

Emily, I really don't think we are going to agree on this issue. All I will say is that with the best will in the world, we don't have the financial or physical resources for every refugee, even if we assume they are all in Calais with genuine intentions.

It's odd though that if the situations are so very similar - then why haven't I heard people calling Assad Hitler?
(Or is it only zionists who get compared to Hitler in popular discourse? Ho hum.)

Anyway, Syria IS hell on earth and if I were still there of course I would send my DC away and tell them to pretend to be younger if those were the only opportunities presenting themselves.

I agree, Augusta. The Jews were depicted by the Nazis as crooks, criminals and sometimes rapists.

Emily, how is the spare room extension and CR adoption/fostering aproval coming along?

The Jewish children who came here were almost sponsored and most of them had pre-arranged homes waiting for them, many offered by British Jewish families.

Is the Muslim community in the uk organising something similar? That's not goads, btw, just wondering because little media coverage has been given to it, if so.

almost all sponsored, that should have read.

Ie, there was paperwork filled in, medicals carried out, etc.

Of course refugees have no choice but to leave bombed out territories.

Where they go after that is a choice.

Sorry to be clear, where they go when their lives are no longer in danger is a choice.

Heavens Morris, what a terrible notion, refugees having choices! They've had everything all taken from them, best to take choice away too eh?

Emily that was in direct response to you saying they had no choice but to flee.

Are refugees subject only to the circumstances forced upon them, or are they making choices?

Which is it?