To think there are size double standards on mumsnet?

[Tobeavsangel]

So I read a thread and a model is being ripped apart for her looks and size.

There was even a comment about how the company should pay her to eat .... Could you imagine the outrage if it was a plus size model and I said the company should have her cut down on her portion sizes?

I'm not even skinny (size 10) but I just hate this double standard on mumsnet.

I have a pretty Orla Kiely jar i got when Douwe Egberts were doing them last year.

"Are you saying people should lie when asked this question?

Why would they be asked that question? Is it something that frequently crops up in everyday conversation? confused"

Tobysmum, this was in reply to a question about thread where women put up a photo of themselves and ask people to comment on their figure. It wasn't about everyday conversation and that should have been clear in my comment. Quite a strange thing to do you might argue, but some people do it, and those who answer honestly have been called 'fat shamers'.

"All this 31 inch diabetes stuff has to be nonsense also.

It is."

It's not nonsense. There are different experts out there and varying advice, but one is that a woman's waist shouldn't go over that size to avoid diabetes. This is from the NHS website:
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Diabetes-type2/Pages/Causes.aspx

"Women have a higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes if their waist measures 80cm (31.5 inches) or more."

Yes gwen everything on the nhs website is taken as the gospel truth

But your explanation of the other part now makes sense, I was really quite confused by that

"Yes gwen everything on the nhs website is taken as the gospel truth wink"

It might be proved wrong in time, but I'll take it over what someone on the Internet says.

Personally I go with common sense over a measurement meant for the average 5'5er. But we can agree to differ.

I've been on both ends. When I was bigger I was told to diet and exercise. I slimmed way down to a size 8 and now I'm being told I should eat more I eat a lot and pretty healthily. You can't win, some people are going to judge you regardless

Wow bmi, waist to hip ratios etc are only meant to be guidelines anyway.

As for quoting 'research' it can be used to 'prove' just about anything, correlation doesn't prove causality

www.fastcodesign.com/3030529/infographic-of-the-day/hilarious-graphs-prove-that-correlation-isnt-causation

"Wow bmi, waist to hip ratios etc are only meant to be guidelines anyway. "

Yes, of course. Nobody's saying everyone has to follow them slavishly, but those moaning of fat shaming on this thread seem to be arguing that nobody who's in the healthy weight range should ever lose weight.

nobody who's in the healthy weight range should ever lose weight.

Everyone can lose or gain weight as they please. The question is why someone who is in a healthy weight range would want to lose weight. Generally it comes down to vanity, which isn't really a healthy reason to lose weight.

The question is why someone who is in a healthy weight range would want to lose weight.

Because at a BMI of 24 I have excess fat and at a BMI lower than 21, I don't.

Because I run faster when I'm lighter.

Because I feel better in myself when I'm lighter and thus my mental health is improved.

All valid reasons, not just "vanity." I look fat at a bmi of 24. Lots of people don't, but I personally prefer to be lighter.

Exactly what Running said.

As I explained a few posts ago, at a BMI of 24 I'd be carrying approx 3 stone of flab around my middle, with all the physical and mental health implications that would come with that.

You think not wanting that is just "vanity"? I think that alone just shows how quick people are to shame slim women, personally.

Isn't it a bit awful that there would be mental health implications for you if you were at the upper end of the healthy weight range?

Pleasant society we have, eh?

But the reasons you just gave "excess flab" are vanity. So much so that carrying "excess flab" (which at a healthy bmi is questionable) effects your mental health even though it doesn't effect your physical health, and your body might actually be healthier from having it.

There's a difference between a person with a healthy bmi saying they want to get fit, or eat healthy because they want to live a healthy lifestyle, and wanting to lose weight so they can fit society's expectations of beauty.

Why does this have to be about society, Tara? Not everyone who wants to be fit and lean wants to do so to fit in size 8 bikini, or because society tells them it's the ideal.

For me, my body is a wonderful thing.
Being fit enables me to run up hills, cycle for hours, swim, carry my baby around on long hikes, and all the rest.

I like to be fit. I like to run fast. Research has proved that carrying less body weight correlates with faster running times, and I have found that to be the case IRL, too.

When I eat well and exercise, I feel good. When I'm about 9st I feel great. I'm not quite there at the moment (still losing baby weight) and carrying the extra flab makes me feel sluggish. I'm heavier on my feet when I run. I'm slower in races. It's harder to carry my newborn around all day. I get hotter. It's uncomfortable.

That's not to do with society. Society doesn't give a stuff about my 10k PB. But I do.

Not everyone who wants to be thin is vain. Fitting in size 8 skinnies is, for me, a welcome byproduct of being fit, eating well and having the active lifestyle I want for me and my family. It's not the aim in itself.

It's the imagery that comes with "mental health". I have broadly similar personal fitness thingabobbins that require me to be more towards the lower end of the range, bit not being there currently doesn't have implications for my mental health!

If what you mean is "I like to be able to run fast", then say that...

If I had 3 stone of fat around my middle, (which would be an increase of more than a third of my whole body weight, and size I'm sure) it would absolutely effect my physical health. You suggesting that it wouldn't is ridiculously ignorant of the health risks. My waist would be way, way over 31 inches as a start (less than a stone adds 2-3 inches, on my waist so I'm sure three would add about 10). At my average height, that would be dangerous.

I appreciate you like to encourage health at every size and that people can be fit even when overweight. And that is great. But please take it from the smaller people who know their own bodies, and their own minds. You should not be shaming people into everyone being at the top of the healthy BMI range. It's not healthy for everyone. It's probably unhealthy for most/many, in my opinion.

Accept that people have a different opinion to you on what is right for them, their health and their lifestyle. People want different things out of life, and out of their bodies (being faster at running than we would be carrying 3stone of excess fat for example). And it's not vanity.

Tara in order to put on 3 stone of fat I would need to start eating unhealthy food in quantities where I would feel like I was going to burst. This wouldn't be enjoyable for me. I would not be doing my normal exercise. I would be sluggish and uncomfortable. I wouldn't be sleeping well. I wouldn't be able to do activities with my family that I love that require me to be relatively fit, or that I take part in with my friends. None of my clothes would fit me, and they'd be expensive to replace! I'd be uncomfortable and too hot. I wouldn't feel comfortable in my own body. I wouldn't feel like "me" anymore.

All of that would have a huge impact on my mental health. I know this for a fact as even when I stop running I notice a change in my mental health, even though my body doesn't look much different.

It might not for you, that's great, but it would for me.

You should not be shaming people into everyone being at the top of the healthy BMI range.

Where have I done or said anything of the sort? I think people should eat healthy foods, exercise and not worry, stress, or starve/overeat in order to fit into some kind of societal expectation of beauty or generalized ideal of health.

If you're eating healthy and getting exercise and your BMI is underweight, but you feel good and well, then that's where you're body is meant to be. Vice Versa for some who's overweight, but eats well, exercises and feels good and well.

Overall health should be the aim, and frankly generalized measures like BMI and waist measurement shouldn't be the aim because they are far too general to apply to individuals.

When I'm about 9st I feel great. I'm not quite there at the moment (still losing baby weight) and carrying the extra flab makes me feel sluggish. I'm heavier on my feet when I run. I'm slower in races. It's harder to carry my newborn around all day. I get hotter. It's uncomfortable.

Then it sounds like 9 stone is the weight your body is meant to be at. As long as you're not dieting or obsessively limiting your calories to maintain that, than I see no issues. . For me, at 9 stone, I was always sick, easily winded and pretty weak. I feel much healthier and can run far longer and faster, not to mention lift a lot of weight, at 12 stone.

However, when you see people with a healthy BMI come on here asking about "losing weight" it's usually not because they want to get healthy so they can run farther or lift heavier. It's because they want to look good in a bikini or fit a certain dress size.

Where have I done or said anything of the sort?

When you said this:

The question is why someone who is in a healthy weight range would want to lose weight. Generally it comes down to vanity, which isn't really a healthy reason to lose weight.

What you have said is that if someone is in the healthy BMI range (so for me, 11stone) then they shouldn't want to be any lower than that, unless they're being vain. You also suggest that our bodies might be healthier being at the higher end.

That is shaming to me - as vanity isn't a positive trait.

You're both contorting yourself like a Twister contestant trying to justify an original grand statement, and in the process you're sounding less rational. Just. Stop.

Please.

I'm not even sure the entire healthy weight range from 18.5-25 is much above three stone... NHS says it's 3 stone 7 for six foot women and 2 stone 7 for five foot women.

I don't see how we are at all I think we've both been very clear.

But you're obviously determined to see us as wrong, so crack on.

You're both contorting yourself like a Twister contestant trying to justify an original grand statement,

I have a tendency to make less sense the more engrossed I get with explaining myself. :P

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if someone with a healthy BMI comes on here and asks about losing weight, I would ask why. Is it because they A) want to be more fit and healthy, in which case I would say that doesn't necessarily equal losing weight. It could just be about eating better foods and getting exercise.

or B) because they think they look fat because society tells them the ideal is a size 2-6, and losing weight would mean dieting, calorie cutting and other not healthy habits.

From what I've seen on this site 8 times out of 10 the reason they are focusing on weight loss is vanity.

Wasn't talking to you fit.