How do you decide between private school or state school?

[Hecegoza]

I'm so torn... There's a lovely prep school, relatively close (15 min drive) and it only has 123 students - from age 1-11. I'd want mine to start at Pre-Reception.

It's very family-like and has great pastoral care (which I think is more important than results, for sure).

It's reasonable price - it's £21 a morning session for Pre-Reception and then £2,900 each term up to Year 6. That includes lunch/swimming, etc.

Then there's an 'Outstanding' state school which is walking distance, it's a lovely newly built building. Then friends he met at school would most likely be in his village too... So that's a bonus, and most likely to go to the same secondary.

I'm struggling to decide if your kids go private, why is that? If state, why did you pick that? I feel they both have good benefits!

Ps why do you think I feel sorry for state educated children

I think the poster up thread who said you choose the right school for your child and that may be private or may be state hit nail on head...

if someone can explain how sending your kids to private school is unethical, I'd love to hear it.

For me I think it is the perception that you are buying your child an advantage over others. That's only true of course if it is actually an advantage and if all other things are equal, which they aren't.

Children from more affluent backgrounds already have an advantage so the added advantage of private school is probably hard to isolate.

At the end of the day the people using private are technically also paying into the state system so their contribution is shared between the children in state school which should mean that they have better funding and lower class sizes. I know the reality is not the same, but that's the theory I guess.

We could never have afforded it anyway so it wasn't a judgement/decision we had to take. We are also lucky in that the state school my children attend is very academic/middle class and they are doing well there. Our most local private school is probably better for the nurturing/extra curricular stuff but doesn't have a good academic record.

I wouldn't say it was unethical or immoral to send your children private but there was a time when I would have thought so.

Private schools don't sit well with me because they on balance strip out the middle-class, affluent children and leave everyone else in the state system - so there's a higher concentration of poor, troubled, unsupported, disruptive children in the state sector.

For me I think it is the perception that you are buying your child an advantage over others.

Agreed.

That said, being born into a middle-class family is a winning lottery ticket - life is inherently unfair. I see this very clearly for having volunteered in our local (failing, hugely deprived) primary. The neglect and apathy is shocking.

I've not read all the responses as I don't want to get the rage.

Our children go to a similar sounding, not outrageously expensive, single-form entry private school.

The school has a tremendously happy atmosphere - it's like one big family.

We didn't 'choose' it but due to work were forced to move very quickly and could not get state school places for the children. Or we could but it would have meant two different schools (in special measures) 10 miles apart, for children in Year 1 and Reception and 3 different school runs.

We've never looked back. Children are so happy and the smaller class sizes make all the difference.

At risk of incurring the wrath of MNs the standard and level of education is much higher than in the state sector.

Not because of better teaching or because the school weeds out SEN (it doesn't) but because right from the start they are getting the children to focus on reading, writing and maths.

My 4 year old had no interest in reading at all and said she found doing work 'boring'. In some settings with 30 noisy kids she would have spent the entire time playing.

With a firm (but kind and lovely) teacher, she is now in her final term of Reception, is loving reading every night and producing beautiful pieces of written work.

After a year in Reception in the state sector, my 6 year old couldn't read and write at all. She found school really boring and not challenging. (She was in a school ranked outstanding). She started Year 1 in the private sector and I was worried that she would be behind. Now she is top of the class for maths is on Stage 7 ORT and her handwriting is wonderful.

Of course it's not all about academic achievement but in the private sector you have smaller class sizes (DD5 has 17 in her class, DD6, 22) and it really helps when every single member of staff knows who your child is. And all the pupils know each other too and you see Year 6s happily playing with and looking after the little ones as though they were siblings.

Only you know what is right for your child but I would say go for it. I'd also not worry about them going to state secondary. 50% of the children from our school go on to state secondaries and integrate well, I am imagining that ours will go to a state school too, for financial reasons. Fees really jump.

But many people say that if you can only afford prep school go for it, because you are really setting them up with great learning habits.

My eldest DD is at secondary school having been at a private school and is absolutely thriving having had that good start.

Let the slating commence...

This is what my 4 year old produced last term. When she started in September she couldn't read or write her name.

She said to me in the car yesterday "I love it at school" which makes the sacrifices worthwhile.

Do you realise why a slating would commence fizzy?

Not because the private school you have chosen for your dc has been good for them - that's fine and good news.

But because you appear to think that no state schools could do as well for children as your private school.

Which is bollocks. Some can and do.

fizzyrubbish
No slating from here (and I don't think you were saying no state school could do as well if I read you correctly, just that this was right for your family).
In fact your situation sounds very similar to our experience- we moved across the country for work and couldn't get kids in the same state school as each other so we put them in private school.
It wasn't for academic reasons, it was for the family feel and the security of them being together, but the change in them academically has been remarkable and there's no doubt about that.

Again before I'm slated let me reiterate that this is my experience of a private school and I'm not saying there are no state schools can offer this same level of education.
Although I'd argue in classes of 9-11 kids there are some academic befits

Benefits* (typo!!)

DH and I are working class in the proper sense of the word - born early 60s brought up on council estates to working parents, rather than the benefit class which I don't think existed so much then. Jobs were manual but were available and paid enough to frugally raise a family. We were often on free school meals though and didn't have much. I'd say we were well raised in that we were clothed, fed and taken for days out even if just to the park with a picnic and we were taught right from wrong but our parents too no interest at all in our school work as that was the "schools job". We did okay - eventually in DHs case.

My children are probably much closer to middle class, lovely new build exec estate, interested parents, lots of extra curricular etc. Our local primary was still very rough when my kids attended it - the maturing of our estate and people stopping sending their children to the more "middle class" school further away has made it much closer to 50/50 now but when my sons went they were in a minority. They did very well. My eldest was bullied badly though - not from the "rough" kids, from his fellow "advantaged" kids.

Anyway, the point of all that is that it depends on your child, it depends on the school, it depends a lot on parental support and coming from a "naice" family doesn't make you a decent person. Personalities do matter. Some of the nicest kids I know have been brought up in single parent "impoverished" households.

I put my 6 year old in a lovely state school for a year, for all the reasons MNs outlined above.

I've now had the opportunity to compare 2 private primaries in 2 different counties with state ones from an actual (rather than potential) parental perspective.

The state schools just don't offer the same opportunities, no matter how wonderful they are or how hard working the staff.

A previous poster talked about Latin & classics. That's important to us too.

I actually feel really strongly in that it makes me furious that other children don't have the same educational opportunities as mine. It isn't fair. But seeing as we have the chance to give our children the best we possibly can for them, we are grabbing it.

I'm not driving myself to a nervous break down with 3 school runs, topping up at home (which we'd need to) and then extra curricular activities (private schools have it all on site) just so I can feel super virtuous. It wouldn't be in either their best interests or mine.

I feel a little guilty in that I know that privileged middle class familes is exactly what many schools need in order to assist with the ethos and standards. But at the school one of my children would have gone to, the head teacher was honest in that they told us that most of their families had severe social problems and that for the first few years they had to adopt a tough zero-tolerance policy with violent children and parents. Why would you send your children there if you could afford an alternative?

Silverine08, your post is completely inconsistent. I haven't the energy to dissect it but all I'll say is I don't think you're quite sure what your position is.

We chose state. We didn't want our daughter to ever feel like she is better or more superior than others... Also, I'm glad I didn't pick private - there is no way could I afford it now my wife has passed away.

At DSs school they do a "yearbook" type of thing where they do a page on themselves answering questions such as what was the funniest thing that happened in school, who was your favourite teacher, who were your best friends, what's your best memory, favourite things to do etc etc and one question is about what you want to be when you grow up. Amongst the nurses, army, computer games designers etc. One boy wrote "When I grow up I want to be a good guy and have a job"

I suppose there is a case where private school would have made a huge difference.

I'd also say this. In the state sector in Reception/Early Years & KS1 you are dealing with a massively diverse intake.

Sometimes that's because of social problems (some children not being able to go to the loo on their own), sometimes because of SEN.

As there is such a diversity, then the overall expectations seem to be lower. There's a huge body of opinion that seems to think that play-based Reception and Year 1 is the optimum.

My children (and I appreciate all children are different) thrive with a more structured and formal setting. I can only compare the Reception in an outstanding over-subscribed faith school in which DD seemed to do nothing, and what her less able and less academically motivated sister achieved in the same period of time in the private sector.

We moved dd after a year in reception at a 'good' state school.

It was quite a nice school but in an extremely challenging class of 31, where they had made the only full time TA was made redundant she seemed to struggle a little. Reading with Ta < never teacher> was sporadic once every 1-2 weeks.

She has thrived in a year1/2 mixed class in a non selective private setting. It's really lovely I'm so glad we took the plunge.

Now I worry the class setting is too small from a social point of view

A class of 9-11 kids??

No thank you. Far too small.

Academic benefits aside, school is about SO much more - friendships, sharing and socialising to name a few.

'it really helps when every single member of staff knows who your child is.' Err, every single member of staff at my dt's state primary know who they are. And get this - they are identical too. How very clever of them

We agonised over this before DS started school last year. For us the money wasn't the biggest factor (we could afford it without compromising on our lifestyle) but we did think long and hard about whether the advantages of the private system (mainly better facilities and smaller classes) were worth the investment. DH and I were both state educated in fairly mediocre schools and while we are both now successful professionals, we are definitely in the minority in our respective professions in terms of our backgrounds. We therefore felt some compulsion to give our DC the advantages we didn't have. However, in the end we chose state for a number of reasons:

• DS got a place at a very small state primary, which is incredibly nurturing (buddy system, small classes, family feel).
• He can walk to school rather than having to be driven every day.
• We believe the right parental support is more important than anything else (we are examples of that).
• Our children are already being raised with far more privilege than we had, and we worried that adding private education would be putting them in more of a bubble than they are already.
• We want them to go to the outstanding local State comp in future, and we felt (rightly or wrongly) that it would be unfair to take then from the private system if we started with it.
• We can always move them later if we change our minds.

Added to all that, we decided it would serve the children better if we used the money we would otherwise be spending in other ways (e.g. in savings for their future, after school activities etc.). As others have said, it's a very personal decision though.

Our local borough state secondaryschools are a well known national disgrace, I.e. there isn't even a 6th form.
We pay an enormous amount of council tax though, for the privilege of living here :(

We realised (like a v. large proportion of local parents) that our kids were going to have to go to secondary schools with a selective criteria in another LEA borough. Selection is by music or faith-; no grammar schools here. In our area, there is a 7am mass exodus of commuting secondary pupils.
Not just as easy as moving house either, we tried that, difficult housing market also.
Paying the private prep fees did the trick, ensuring both kids got music places in good state secondary schools, albeit miles away. Their private prep is affiliated to a cathedral and their music education was outstanding.
I absolutely hated having to justify reasons for sending children to private prep to new people. In fact, we never ever volunteered this information to anyone unless specifically asked. Lots of people had very strong opinions on what we should spend our money on; I felt very strongly that it was NONE of their business. I would never comment on what others should spend their money on.
There are some utterly ridiculous stereotypical comments on this thread about both private and state school education; good and bad in all walks of life surely!! Ultimately, most parents just try to do what's best for their children in the specific circumstances and then hope for the best.
Really OP is in a very fortunate position, having both excellent private and state schools nearby, I envy you!

We always thought we'd send our DC to state school, but when the time came and we saw our nearest prep, we caved .

At the time we just fell for the green space, atmosphere and proximity to home.

And we had the money. So...

In retrospect, with the benefit of years of hindsight ( DC now in lower 6th), that prep was worth it's weight on gold.

Pasanda.

In a primary with a 4 class intake, there are members of staff who have no idea who your child is.

Just telling it how it is. Round here there are some amazing village primary schools. None of my children got places.

Re a class size of 9-11, I bet most 4 year olds prefer this to a large noisy scary class of 30.

We moved our dc from state to private a couple of years ago. On the whole we loved the school but DC1 was not happy for a variety of reasons. He didn't seem to fit in any friendship group, despite there being 60 children in the year, he is very good maths and it wasn't really being addressed and loved music and there was very little provision. So we decided a fresh start might be better for hm.

DC2 is very good at sport and competes at very high level in his chosen sport but loves all sport. So therefore, private with excellent sport and music opportunities seemed like a good option. I haven't noticed a big academic difference at all - although DC1 is given more extension opportunities. But there is no doubt the curriculum is wider with no SATs focus and the longer day means that there is much more opportunity for music, sport, drama etc.

I am very aware of not creating children who do not appreciate the others and fit the stereotype of a 'public school child' but I really believe that is learned at home and not at school.

pasanda re: class sizes, my DS's private school class had 9 in reception, now 12, size of the class was never a negative issue for us. In a small school, with one intake per year it's not a case, for us at least, that their social horizons are limited - they just mix better with children in the years above and below, sit on mixed tables for lunch, join mixed year-group clubs and socialise widely int he after school care. Our DS has friendships across all year groups. Best of both worlds, really.

academic benefits aside, school is about SO much more - friendships, sharing and socialising to name a few.

The social side is just different in a small school- it's hard to explain as I had concerns about the very small classes but they socialise with different year groups and friendships are less about who's is their class. A lot of things are the whole school together which is lovely and everyone gets a part in stuff so everyone builds their confidence.
We've had 4 kids over to play this week and only 1 has been in the same school year as my kids. So what seems like a social barrier isn't worse, just different (I think I explained that reasonably well and I'm not being critical of larger classes- just explaining how ours work)

wigornian

Just realised we made a similar point but I hadn't read the previous post!