How do you decide between private school or state school?

[Hecegoza]

I'm so torn... There's a lovely prep school, relatively close (15 min drive) and it only has 123 students - from age 1-11. I'd want mine to start at Pre-Reception.

It's very family-like and has great pastoral care (which I think is more important than results, for sure).

It's reasonable price - it's £21 a morning session for Pre-Reception and then £2,900 each term up to Year 6. That includes lunch/swimming, etc.

Then there's an 'Outstanding' state school which is walking distance, it's a lovely newly built building. Then friends he met at school would most likely be in his village too... So that's a bonus, and most likely to go to the same secondary.

I'm struggling to decide if your kids go private, why is that? If state, why did you pick that? I feel they both have good benefits!

"The aforementioned parents tend "Isn't it weird how posh hippies suddenly want their kids to go to such establishment schools when faced with mixing with ordinary children)"

I know three people who identify as left wing, who have always talked the talk about social equality, but then sent their own dc's to private secondary schools where they can guarantee that they won't come into contact with any deprived children. All of them have outstanding state schools very close by, but these are not often acceptable to certain types of local parents as they have high numbers of poor children in them (and are 80% non-white).

Round our way, private schools are full of children from very wealthy families. So if our daughters had gone there, we couldn't have kept up with the holidays, trips, their friends' houses, holiday homes, horses etc etc.

Also we have a good state school and we don't see the point of hothousing kids and pushing them to incredibly high formal academic achievement - to what end? Why? I mean that question genuinely.

Our girls are bright. They might have got one or two more A*s at GCSE or one more A level or gone to Oxbridge instead of another very good uni my eldest is in... so, ya know, who cares!

"lurked
Yes, I'm lying I've never met families who have done this. Just thought I'd make it up, for a laugh like.
I'm not suggesting they are a majority by any stretch, or even representative, but they exist.
As do the ones who sell everything to do so, again another minority."

I think you probably are not aware of a lot of people's private finances, there may be some cases of people doing it on benefits if their children are getting a complete free ride, but so small numbers that it would be a statistical anomaly.

The "anyone can do it if they try" myth might make you feel better if you believe in it but it doesn't make it true.

As I've said previously, if you want an eye opener look at the families who get bursaries or some assistance with their fees. You will find that, there are few students from disadvantaged backgrounds who are getting a full bursary etc, but that there are lots and lots of students from quite affluent backgrounds getting a bit of assistance too. You'd also find that the "naice" middle class primary schools get approached regarding putting students forward but that the independents aren't quite a cavalier in approaching schools in deprived areas.

There cannot be that many assisted places at independents - at ours there are only 14 children in a class in total.
The profile of children in the school ranges from rich overseas to the genteel poor who have family money. Seem to have very few 2x parents working too.
We both work FT and on the surface no one would describe us as rich, by any means. However we have an ok income and avoid shopping at waitrose!

If you can afford a place at private school out of your own income, then you most certainly are rich. It's laughable to suggest otherwise. One in four children grow up in single parent households. The national average income is just under £27k. School fees range from £12000 to £18000 per term. Take home annual pay on £27k (assuming no student loan) is approx £21500. You do the maths!

Sorry, I should have said private school fees range from £12k to £18k per year, not term.

Ok I take your point. But the money is due to 2 salaries. It isn't due to owing lots of land nor big business.
If either of us lost our job tomorrow we would be stuck for the school fees fairly quickly.
Plus primary is more accessible that a london secondary.

Purple your fee range is quite narrow.
There are circumstances where fees are being paid by a member of the extended family. Single-parent on benefits, home issues etc +|- Young Carers+|-other very disabled children. Each to their own, individual circumstances.

lurked

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I believe anybody can do it, because I don't think they can.
I was responding to pp who said how could they do it as they were responding to pp who said they did it by cutting back, etc.
yes, for some people this is possible.
My point fwiw is you don't always know until you try and that there are schools that operate differently to the norm.
There are state boarding schools for a start, that whilst not private offer a similar education.
There are private schools that offer bursaries and other funding anything from full fees to a small percentage.
We never considered dd school at first as being fee paying were certain we'd never afford it. We had no idea how it all worked until we looked at it.

Stopping shopping at waitrose and other small savings isnt going to raise the money for private school unless you all already close to affording it. I spend about £600 a month on shopping. Even if we dodnt eat at all that isnt enough to pay for private school.

Even if you were a 20 a day smoker who quit to fund your child's fees you'd only get £3640 after a year, which is about a term's fees.

A state boarding school btw, is where the education is free but you pay for board, £4,000 a term, which means £12k a year, which is just term time for one child, again not really affordable for many parents.

It comes back again to this "good personal choices and hard work" mantra that so many of you have . "Oh of course you can afford private school, you just have to make it a priority." Which then suggests that if you didn't do that then it was your choice not to, again enforcing the mantra.

In fact you have to be fairly well off, no matter how well off you think you are, to be able to afford private schooling. No amount of shopping in Aldi instead of waitrose and going on camping holidays to Scotland rather than All inclusive in the Algarve will help you.

I don't mind people sending their children to boarding school, I mind the implications made about "choices" when or the vast majority o people there is no choice.

Has anyone on this thread actually said that 'anyone can afford private school if you just are careful with your money'? Really?

^
No !

Well it wa said earlier. Actually. Implied about " sacrifices"

Was it posters saying that they personally had made sacrifices in order to afford school fees? Or was it posters saying anyone could afford it if only they were willing to sacrifice other things?

There was definately a bit of both, but then one kind of implies the other does it not?

I wouldn't say so, no. Everyone's circumstances are different.

If I was to tell you I had sacrificed home ownership and a car to pay school fees that would be entirely different to if I sacrificed holidays and Waitrose shops. (I haven't sacrificed any of these things personally, these are just examples btw).

I just don't see how one person saying they have made sacrifices equates to saying that all people can or should.

Its in the implication, its not expicit.

I don't think anybody has implied that it's easy to achieve, but some said they have made sacrifices.
Hell, we have made sacrifices because even though the majority of our fees are paid, the small amount we have to pay still needs us to keep a reign on outgoings as we are one wage low income family.

Everybody's situation is different, and the way schools are managed in terms of fee support are different too.

Just because a person says x worked for me doesn't mean to say they think x will work for everybody else. They are offering information about their circumstances.

If you can't see that the statements about making sacrifices etc are implicitly remarking that many people could do the same then fine. You don't have to agree, doesn't make you right.

BTW I could have afforded it. Chose not to lol

Many parents at private schools have two parents working full time and lots will have limited the number of children they have to ensure they only have 1 or 2 children. That does not mean two parents on the minimum wage of about £13k a year each (£26k) who rent a property even with tax credits could afford it although they might if they could obtain a substantial or complete bursary. One of my children went to school with a child whose parents had virtually nothing in financial terms, but the child was exceptionally bright and got a 100% bursary to the school. That is very rare however. No one is saying it is easy.

In response to the original question: "I'm struggling to decide - if your kids go private, why is that?" Lots of reasons. I can afford it. I prefer the school my sons are in to the state schools around here. I always went to fee paying schools myself and it's what I know. The children from their school tend to do pretty well. It has some facilities most local state schools don't have. I like the ethos. I wanted single sex education too. Loads of different reasons.

However everyone like the original poster who has a choice needs to make their own choice. We paid/ are paying fees right through - age 3/4 to university.

Of course the majority of families with children in private schools are wealthy or very wealthy.

And of course private schools are inaccessible to the majority of the population.

But there are plenty of average income (not many low income I shouldn't think) families in private schools and I think that's where the confusion comes in. These children are not wealthy but they can only access the school due to other, unavailable to most, criteria.

In our prep of circa 350 we have:
23 children of staff members (85% off) - this includes my kids
11 children from forces families (100% fees in most cases I think)
9 children whose fees are paid by companies/businesses that require parent/s to spend large amount of time abroad/live there.
3 children whose fees are paid by some kind of charity for children with chaotic home lives who would benefit from a boarding environment
An unknown (but significant enough for us to have to hold a grandparents open afternoon) number of children whose fees are paid by grandparents.

That's about a 7th of the school whose parents are paying little to nothing for their schooling. It doesn't mean the school isn't getting the money (except in the case of the staff children) so it isn't affecting the school's financial viability. Someone is paying, just not the parents.

We do have bursaries but you can usually only access them through a scholarship (nominal 10% off fees) and I don't think they'd go much beyond 40-50% off (I don't know, I'm not privy to bursary info really).

Definitely not the case that private schools don't have low ability children either. Ours is about 15-20% SEN.

I look at my bank account and it tells me State School!

"But there are plenty of average income (not many low income I shouldn't think) families in private schools and I think that's where the confusion comes in. "

This is where the impression of "average" and the reality comes in.

The average family with two children has a disposable income of £31,000 after tax.Not quite possible to pay the mortgage, car, bills, feed and clothe four of you (even cheaply) and then have enough left over to pay two sets of fees and uniform.

So yes, you do have to be more than "average" to send your childen to private school.