How do you decide between private school or state school?

[Hecegoza]

I'm so torn... There's a lovely prep school, relatively close (15 min drive) and it only has 123 students - from age 1-11. I'd want mine to start at Pre-Reception.

It's very family-like and has great pastoral care (which I think is more important than results, for sure).

It's reasonable price - it's £21 a morning session for Pre-Reception and then £2,900 each term up to Year 6. That includes lunch/swimming, etc.

Then there's an 'Outstanding' state school which is walking distance, it's a lovely newly built building. Then friends he met at school would most likely be in his village too... So that's a bonus, and most likely to go to the same secondary.

I'm struggling to decide if your kids go private, why is that? If state, why did you pick that? I feel they both have good benefits!

I'd got state and save your money for later on. You never know what your secondary school options will be like then and Uni fees are really expensive these days!

There's loads of vital information that OP doesn't provide [at least not in OP, apologies if did so later], most notably the type of schooling that she received; the type of schooling that others in her circles of friends & family are getting; just how affordable the fees are. Without this key information the question's kind of meaningless.

As someone with a little experience of both I can confirm that, with the best will in the world, the state system will look like a thinly resourced, disorganized, zoo to most people whose life experiences revolve around the private system. Equally, the private system will look like an overpriced, snobbish, brainwash factory to most people whose life experiences revolve around the state system. All of this is is pretty much inevitable.

Trying to be objective, based on the very limited information provided by OP, state would IMO be best. The main argument in favour of private seems to be that the fees would in this case be readily affordable. The main argument in favour of state seems to be that the kids will end up at the same secondary school anyway. Under such circumstances private primary schooling is IMO a complete waste of money. The only point, to me, of private primary schooling is as a pathway to private secondary schooling or I suppose to sitting an 11+ with a view to attending a grammar. If a local comp is the ultimate aim then private primary schooling's a waste. Any perceived benefits of it will have long, long since been lost by the time GCSEs, A levels, and whatnot come around .

Interestingly it seems there are a far higher proportion of people on MN who send their children private than there are in "real life".

On the buying "advantages" thing, I totally agree, its fine to buy these advantages and privileges, but often in later life these advantages are not realised and people start to believe their own "hard work" mantra. Just look at the "skivers and strivers" narrative preached by the current government, it assumes that those who are not successful aren't trying, rather than those that are successful are often their because of the advantages bought for them by their parents. Its been succesfully proven by studies that "hard work and good personal choices" are not all it takes to succeed and that parents buying these advantages is increasingly more likely to attain success for children then their own merit.

There again is a lot of "much better than state schools" stuff here, which is proved incorrect when you take the fact that state educated children out perform privately educated chidren at uni.

Interestingly it seems there are a far higher proportion of people on MN who send their children private than there are in "real life".

On the buying "advantages" thing, I totally agree, its fine to buy these advantages and privileges, but often in later life these advantages are not realised and people start to believe their own "hard work" mantra. Just look at the "skivers and strivers" narrative preached by the current government, it assumes that those who are not successful aren't trying, rather than those that are successful are often their because of the advantages bought for them by their parents. Its been succesfully proven by studies that "hard work and good personal choices" are not all it takes to succeed and that parents buying these advantages is increasingly more likely to attain success for children then their own merit.

There again is a lot of "much better than state schools" stuff here, which is proved incorrect when you take the fact that state educated children out perform privately educated chidren at uni.

State schooled pupils do not out perform there private counterparts.

They outperform them on the least selective courses as is exactly what you would expect; many state schooled students are far too conservative with their choices and end up on courses where they are over qualified.

@GetAHaircutCarl/lukred101 - well, they do 'like for like', e.g. state educated kids with say BBB do better at uni than privately educated kids with BBB. but this is fairly obvious, the state educated kid will in almost all cases be brighter.

if anything this, to parents, is an argument in favour of privately educating your kids if you can afford it - it makes them more likely to get onto a better degree course.

the flip side is of course, to government and universities, is that this is an argument in favour of positive discrimination against privately educated kids in university admissions. but this certainly doesn't happen now & doesn't seem likely to any time soon.

I'd also say that the majority of private schooled children expect to go to uni and so will all apply whereas in some state schools only the most high performing students will apply and therefore those will likely be the ones with most self motivation. Doubtless they will also be aware of not wasting their own or their parents money if their parents are in a position to help.

I think private schools reputations , especially the well known ones, are getting worse and worse.
I worked in hr for a while - if we received a cv with 4 As from an applicant from a public school, we would treat this with a pinch of salt, meaningless, and gave no insight in to the intelligence of the applicant.

People often use the 'state school students do better at university' as evidence that state education is somehow superior. But the devil as ever is in the detail.

What is clear is that privately educated young people are over represented on the most selective courses and later in life dominate industries from law and politics to medicine and science and all the way through to the media and the creative arts.

Pretending that this ain't so and that where you were educated has no bearing, is an odd stance to take in the face of the evidence.

@arethereanyleftatall that's a real thing, undoubtedly, I've been in that position myself in graduate recruitment - 'he went to Westminster & got ABB??? must be a fool, his CV goes straight into the 'no' pile. but the fact is, in that instance, if the same person with the same [very minimal] amount of talent his CV had been educated at a state school, with consequent knock-on impact on his grades etc, the application wouldn't even have made it as far as my desk.

@GetAHaircutCarl - there's something in that but what you have to remember is that people who go to private schools are without exception very privileged, in that their parents are both well off & eager for their offspring to do well. to assess the impact of their education such kids can only sensibly be compared with equally privileged state-educated kids. state-educated kids born to parents who are well off & eager for their offspring to do well can, in my experience, sometimes in a way get the best of both worlds. they've got parents looking over their shoulder, perhaps ready to step in with advice or even a private tutor if their academic results go badly, possibly set up some good quality work experience, offer advice on university or job applications, etc... but they also grow up in a [for the want of a better word] 'normal', more relaxed, atmosphere with an extra dash of self-awareness that the private system can't ever give you .

I think there is the other thing that children from poorer backgrounds are not as able to get work experience opportunities in a lot of fields which private school pupils are. For example my DS may have an interest in law but we don't know any lawyers or circulate in those kind of fields so the chance or someone's Mummy or Daddy showing him round the family firm and letting him help out in holidays etc is nil. That then means he doesn't have as good an application for Uni/jobs etc.

So even if an equivalent education is available at both state and private - that's not all it's about - it's about contacts etc too.

I've found exactly the opposite in terms of manners - I'm a teacher and teach in private and state schools and the children in state school are far more polite.

If you are in private and have the wrong car/smaller house/pay lower tuition fees for economic reasons then you are a target for a very underhand and manipulative form of bullying that doesn't happen in a state school on the same level.

Yes you always get a group in whatever school you're in but I'm so glad my children are in state they're well rounded polite enthusiastic and kind and so are the majority of their peers but this thread is purely an opinion of what suits your lifestyle more than anything.

magnum TBH work experience will not assist an application to study law at university. It's all about the grades.

Thereafter, anyone with good grades can apply for some. If you go to an excellent university, obtain excellent exam results, you will not struggle to get a vacation placement or a mini pupilage.

arethereanyleft wouldn't the applicants' degrees, classification and destination be a tiny bit more helpful?

GetAHaircutCarl-agree with you.
Disregarding a job candidate with 4 Grade A A'levels, just because they've been privately educated, smacks of reverse snobbery.

TFPsa Wed 11-May-16 13:49:3

wonderful summing up - if the aim is the comp, forget the private.

In fact probably best no private before because he may get picked on.

As for the buying privilege, of course I understand this, but all sorts of privileges are conferred onto people. Good looks, happy easy going personality? Ability to make friends easily and networks? Brains, humour, beauty joy, supportive loving parents.

Is this what Mao was trying to do when he stripped back society so No ONE could be other to someone else? ( except of course him and his cronies)

In my experience the school and the university I attended have been helpful in applying for jobs and certainly for further academic research.
So whilst some recruiters perhaps with strange chips on their shoulders might discard a private school high achieving cv, many wouldn't.

I also agree with the strangley named - get a hair cut!

We started off state, and switched to private. It has been a good choice for my dreamy daughter, who is doing much better in the smaller class.

Which you choose depends on what your options are like, and it sounds like your choices are quite close, hence your dilemma, right OP?

Other advantages of private include (in our local area anyway) dramatically better provision for sport, music, art and drama. The school is famous for its academic leaning, but so far sport is the big difference we have notice, and it goes up even more next year!

There is a really great state secondary in my town that would be great to send my children to, but the difference between the cost of our house and the cost of a comparable house in its catchment is greater than the cost of the fees for the (not massively expensive) private school all the way through.

Our school is the least expensive private in our area and I feel that the parents on the whole are NOT massively well off, but are very ambitious for their children and make sacrifices to send their children to this school rather than taking it for granted in any way.

Also, I was bullied mercilessly for being "posh" when I went to a state secondary after a private primary.

I look at my pay packet

a. My bank balance
B. There are no Welsh medium private schools and I want my children to be educated in their mother tongue.
C. I have four the cost implications =refer to point A

My daughter started in the state system: she was in an Outstanding primary just at the end of our road. 25 kids in each class. It was nice, she made lots of friends. She was identified as G&T in Reception and worked with other year groups to extend her. Most of the other kids were nice, quite middle class, I had no issue with it.

Then after a couple of years she got a scholarship to a local independant school. I really agonised about whether to send her or not, but in the end I decided that 100% of fees paid til the end of Y6 was too good to turn down, and she was keen, so we switched schools. It was, without a doubt, the right decision. It's just so different! She had 10 kids in her class at the start of the year - that;s since risen to 15. The facilities are amazing. THe individual attention is incredible. She doesn't need to work outside her year any more as she's extended within her own year group (she's not the only G&T child there). As it's a smaller school everyone knows everyone else - she has friends from Reception to Y6. The extra-curricular stuff is just mad: she does free clubs 3 nights a week and there's breakfast and after-school club included in the fees. They have specialist PE and music teachers right from the word go - PE is a daily thing, and music almost daily.

The kids and the parents are lovely. Some are super-rich, some are just well-off, some are entirely ordinary and making big sacrifices to send their kids there. No one gives a damn what car you drive! Most of us seem to have slightly battered mummy-buses!

Private education would be entirely out of our reach without the scholarships, but it's an amazing thing to have, and I don't doubt it's giving our daughter the best start. I won't move her out of the independant sector now. Hopefully she'll be as clever at 11 as she was at 6, so she'll be able to wine another scholarship for senior.

If you are going to send him to state secondary then don't send him to a school with only 123 children across all years. If you can only afford a few tears private then do the outstanding state primary then private secondary.

It wasn't my policy antandec and hair cut.

And I didn't say we disregarded said applicants. Just that we didn't trust their grades, and would check it out for ourselves at interview stage.

Exactly.. lots of evidance suggests state educated with the same grades out perform private at university.

Private schools are great if that's what you want to do. I just hate some of the attitudes displayed on here that the children are somehow superior in intellect.

There was a great piece of research earlier this year that documented that the over representation of privately educated people in the highly demanded courses at university (although 75 % of RG students are state) and in the highly paid professions was not down to their ability but more to the advantages and privileges they have received through wealth.

I don't mind others doing well at all, I do mind (as some have on here) putting it down to better class and intellectual capability.