How do you decide between private school or state school?

[Hecegoza]

I'm so torn... There's a lovely prep school, relatively close (15 min drive) and it only has 123 students - from age 1-11. I'd want mine to start at Pre-Reception.

It's very family-like and has great pastoral care (which I think is more important than results, for sure).

It's reasonable price - it's £21 a morning session for Pre-Reception and then £2,900 each term up to Year 6. That includes lunch/swimming, etc.

Then there's an 'Outstanding' state school which is walking distance, it's a lovely newly built building. Then friends he met at school would most likely be in his village too... So that's a bonus, and most likely to go to the same secondary.

I'm struggling to decide if your kids go private, why is that? If state, why did you pick that? I feel they both have good benefits!

OP - my issues with the private you described are:
too few children - sounds a bit like one of my DD's nursery. When you looked carefully it had very few children after school admission age, what looked like 4 classes from 4 onwards, were actually 2 classes of going to school next year, 1 class of reception age mixed with those who just missed the cut off for Reception (September and October born) and then one class of year 1 and 2 age.
If there are too few children, your child is less likely to meet children they can gel with. There may well be a sex imbalance. And there are fewer children for team games.

I'd worry about the finances - it sounds too cheap.

Do lots of children or boys leave between 5 and 11? Parents won't necessarily be open about this, and neither necessarily will the teachers/head.

Certainly if it is this small it may struggle if your child is either G and T or has an SEN.

Yes, it was awful. It took some time, but she's over it now, I think.

It was just an example

At the end of year 3 in state school my Dd had never read a chapter book on her own.

Half way through year 4 at private school she read The Railway Children and The Lion the witch and the wardrobe.

She has blossomed.

Maybe her state school just wasn't right for her but seeing what she has achieved in last 8 months every penny has bee worth it.

Having taught at both outstanding state & independent schools, I believe the difference is huge.
Independent schools have to prove themselves as being worthy of asking thousands of pounds to educate your children. Essentially private schools are business's. The effort that goes into teaching & clubs etc in a private school is huge. I'm expected to run four clubs a week after school & at lunchtime, hear children read 4 times a week, write ton parents in their diaries everyday. Performances are perfect, we win every competition going when against state schools, from sport to poetry recites. The attention children & their parents receive is huge compared to state schools. If you can afford private & you are sure it's a good school, then I would recommend going independent.

Oh jeez my son, while at state school, wrote a chaptered book in year 1. okay it was all about Gormitis and dragons and Guinea pigs but still

My state educated daughter was reading a chaptered book per day in year 4 at the weekends. No one ever believes this but it's really true. We took ten books on holiday last year and we were furiously downloading books onto her tablet on day 11 as we'd run out. And she was a published poet aged 8. And that's despite Nicky Morongan and Gove doing their level best to put her off literacy. She's shit at maths tho!

I do think people who choose private like to defend their choice by alluding to inferior teaching, behaviour, standards, riff raff etc at state schools. It's really not the case. Totally depends on the state schools near you.

I haven't read all the posts but here's my view - we did both, dd went to state for r and year 1 and then private when we changed areas.
A. Because FIL offered to pay! And B. Because we couldn't get a school place at a local school, and certainly not one we liked!

I loved dds first state school - I thought it was fab. Great, passionate, switched on teachers, good facilities and lovely people. It was outstanding.
Her current school offers things her previous one didn't - more swimming, clubs, smaller classes, more trips, more flexibility in terms of curriculum - I.e I think they do much more art / creativity than previously. And I love that. I don't think it's perfect, and potentially the first school was more academically driven!

I think it comes down to the schools - don't look at it as state vs private, just pick based on individual merits and remember that with one option you can supplement it with clubs / hobbies yourself

private schools are everything that state schools want to be. only can't due to fewer resources. We chose private cos we can afford it. We would have chosen state had we not been able to afford it

I chose state because:

1. didn't want to narrow DC's social circle
2. wanted them to have time to do extra curricular stuff away from school environment
3. live in a town where two comps both outshine the private school
4. went to private school myself and while it was lovely to learn Latin and Greek, I would be horrified if DC's turned out like the absolute twats who were the overwhelming majority of my classmates. Just remembering their attitude towards the cleaners, catering staff etc makes my toes curl

Can I ask those who say 'it's ethically wrong to choose private school, why?'

Ida - It is quite likely your daughter would have started to read whole books if she had remained at the state school. She was probably ready to start doing that and it has nothing to do with the school.
Our local very very famous private school has one of the biggest fall outs from university. The students have been so spoonfed they cannot cope when asked to be responsible for their own learning.

I went to a state primary and private secondary. I think area has something to do with attitudes particularly of parents. I live in a naice area and, according to my mother, a lot of the parents at the state were very middle class, talking about their skiing holidays etc. At my private secondary no one gave a flying fuck what we wore or what car we had. Many of us did get an amazing set of GCSE results, but I don't remember feeling much pressure. My friend went to a grammar school and there was horrendous pressure there. There was also a grammar school near us which piled on the pressure- pupils being told they were failures and letting the school down for failing to get an A* and having breakdowns in the corridors. There is no way I'd send my child into that sort of environment. I get wanting a child to do well but that just goes too far.
It does depend on the school though.

We used both state and private for our children at primary level. The first child (DD) went to a very good state school for reception to year 6, and our second (DS) went to a very good private school from reception to year 2, then to state for years 3-6.

To be honest, the key difference I saw was social. The state school had a catchment area of less than a mile radius, and was the focal point of the local community. The private school (which was only 200 yards away) was essentially unconnected to the area, and drew pupils from 5-6 miles away. In practical terms, that meant our DD had friends all around us and was able to create her own social life. Our DS, on the other hand, had to be driven to friends' houses for organised play dates. When he moved to the state system, his social life expanded enormously.

When he moved to the state system in year 3, he was at the upper end of academic achievement, but he wasn't the brightest or most advanced in his class. I'm sure he benefitted from a slightly better education at the private school, but I suspect the difference was trivial.

There are several top private secondary schools in our area, and many of the state primary kids went on to the private secondary schools. They may have found the entrance exams tough, but many won places (and some won scholarships), so if there was an academic difference, it wasn't sufficient to hold back the better pupils.

If I could afford it I would always chose private/independent over state school.I went to an independent school and I Recently had a conversation with colleagues about our schooling and I was really surprised by the differences. They hated their time at school, whereas everyone at my school loved it, we still talk fondly, visit our teachers etc. My colleagues say they were never encouraged to think for themselves, question their teachers, take an active role in their learning, my school was a non stop debate half the time, and our opinions were valued. Colleagues never had a class smaller than 25 people, we never had one larger than 20, a level classes were usually about 5 people. Someone summed it up best with the question 'at your old school if someone said they wanted to be prime minister what would the teacher say?' At my school the kid would have been told what a levels they needed to take to get into Oxbridge, told to join the debating club and given the contact details to our local mp, at his school the kid was laughed at.

IdaBattersea you never thought of giving her a book to read herself no?

Anyway, please don't feel sorry for my apparently deprived DD who at six was reading Mallory Towers (the irony!), does piano, French, hockey, drama and who is challenged, nurtured and encouraged every day. At her state school.

Leaving aside cost and ethics, the fact that most state schools don't do SATS and have fewer assessments would be enough to make me consider going private. I feel that the education my children have received at state primary school has been very poor as a result of too much teaching to the test, at the expense a giving them a good grounding in basic literacy and maths (not to mention all the other things like art, drama etc that have fallen by the wayside).

On the other hand, if they're definitely going to the local state secondary then I might be more inclined to go with the local primary.

Outfoxed - your school sounds fabulous BUT not all independent schools are like that. And not all state schools would laugh at a child who wanted to be Prime Minister.

Be very careful when choosing schools, because you may be shocked by schools in either sector.

Sorry, I meant "most private schools don't do SATS", obviously.

OP's particular private option sounds very small and potentially financially struggling. Too small class sizes (under 15) are not good IMO, eg socially. If the number of the pupils includes the nursery it suggests class sizes could be tiny. How many in each year? There could also be financial difficulties: if it's a charitable trust you should check the accounts.

Hmm, depends on the child too. My children went to a rough stste primary. They could both read chapter books by the end of their first year and read the first 3 Harry Potters, and loads of other stuff by age 7. DS2 wrote a report about Inuits at age 6. By the age of 10 they had a reading age of 15.....and were good at Maths, both have achieved Silver in Junior Maths Olympiad. Still at state school.

A teacher at primary school said that children who are read too at home leap forward at least 2 years when the start to read and no matter what you do with the other children, they never catch up.

Anyway I digress, I just wanted to point out that children can and do do very well in state schools.

Excuse all the errors, the tablet hates me.

I really don't understand how this subject always seems to rile people up and if someone can explain how sending your kids to private school is unethical, I'd love to hear it.

I'm not sure anyone could convince me that a good private school will not always be able to provide a better environment to learn in than a good state school. Teachers are better paid and better teachers are attracted to private school, class sizes mean your child is given more time, more resources to support learning and generally good facilities for extra curricular activities.

That said not all private schools are good and I'm sure in many cases the local primary is either equally good or better.

After a brief stint in the local primary and an unfortunately poor experience, we moved DS1 for Y2 to a private school and DS2 joined him in Kindergarten. The fees are eye watering (£3k a term until year 3 and the £5.5k between Year 3 and 8) and we have accepted that we have no disposable income left to spend on holidays, eating out etc. The boys are so happy and both seem to be getting so much out of it that frankly we cant think of anything we'd rather spend the money on. The parents are a great mix as well. There are definitely the super rich (including the daughter of a British icon) but an equal number of parents who are making huge sacrifices to afford the fees. I have yet to encounter any snobbery or flashy, arrogant behaviour.

The way I'd approach this would be to first decide what you think is key for your child and what is important to you. As some examples, do you want regular, detailed communication, variety of extra curricular activities, child led progress, teacher knowledge of your child, integration in the community. Once you know this, you can visit the schools and question how they deal with each requirement. Its more than possible that the primary can fulfill all your key requirements and that the private school does not appear to offer much more or you may find they are world apart.

Whatever you do, please don't assume that as a private school it automatically means that your child will receive the best education. I know plenty of private schools that attract parents on the basis of class size but are awful at the education bit! I would also try to grab a parent or two from both schools and ask them if they have any gripes. Whichever you choose, you can always change your mind at a later date.

I went to a private school for 6th form and would happily consider it for my children but...

I'd check whether private or state were better for my children's needs, whether I could afford private and the commute.

Private schools definitely don't filter out the riff raff. There was plenty on my school. I never felt the pressure from the school to do well in a levels. Just to the pressure on myself. My school also set me up for adulthood. Both me and DH went to the same school and are both either on the same level or ahead of friends from state schools only. I put a lot of it down to our parents and the way they raised and supported us.

OP, there are good, bad and average schools in both state and independent education. The thread has unfortunately gathered the usual stereotypical and rude comments about both sectors, based on the posters narrow experiences. I would ignore comments from adults about their own schooling, things have moved on from the old days.
I think you should visit both options on normal working days. You'll get a feel for which school suits your child best. I echo worry that the independent school seems very small, I think for friendships and working with children of similar ability it is important to have a reasonable sized year group. I would also look at the catchment area for each school as it's important friends are local.

Outfoxed So your knowledge of the state education system is based on what someone you know told you about what their school was like 30 years ago?

DH and I both went to state schools 30 years ago (not especially good ones, though we both did well) and our DC go to state schools. They are completely different now.

Happy yes I tried of course. I read chapter books with her lots but she wouldn't read one alone, I don't know why. But something happened with her confidence when she moved. As I said her state school just wasn't the right one for her. There is no one size fits all but for us private school has made a difference.

My post was my personal experience of course I know masses of state educated children read chapter books!!!