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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's a bit weird when men get over protective about their DDs having boyfriends?

331 replies

PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 15:11

BIL has a thing about his DD getting a boyfriend (she's only 5!) and keeps saying things like he'll wait at home with a baseball bat when she goes on her first date and tells her she can't have a boyfriend until she's 21. Apparently he "knows what lads that age are like and how they treat girls" Hmm He doesn't do it in a jokey way either has no sense of humour.

This isn't the first time I've encountered this over protective attitude, and it's often portrayed on TV/films too. AIBU to think it's ridiculous and unhealthy? My dad was always fine with me having BFs as a teen, as long as they were treating me right.i think it's rather unfair to assume all boys are shitheads to girls.

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Fourormore · 08/05/2016 22:26

But is it 80,000 rapes or 80,000 rapists? That can amount to a very big difference.

One rapist is obviously one too many but if you're going to throw statistics around then they need to be clear.

DoinItFine · 08/05/2016 22:28

Who on earth "raises a rapist?

I'm going with a rapist's parents.

BlahBlahBlahWhatever · 08/05/2016 22:28

He sounds like a dick now & a dick then. I feel sorry for his dd & his dw/dp

chilledwarmth · 08/05/2016 22:29

AskBasil then how do you know a rape has happened if there is not a conviction? The only way you could know for a fact it did is if it happened to you, and even then all you could say for sure is that you were raped, not that all other rape allegations are true.

Fourormore · 08/05/2016 22:29

Very funny, Doin. That clearly wasn't the point I was making.

Pinky - 1 in 6? This took a Google search of less than 10 seconds, I'm sure there's more - 1in6.org/the-1-in-6-statistic/

DoinItFine · 08/05/2016 22:30

Unless we have one (too many) very active superhero-style alibi rapist, 80,000 rapes means a very lot of rapists.

Fourormore · 08/05/2016 22:31

Yes. I can see that. But 80,000 rapes and 80,000 rapists are still not the same thing.

Junosmum · 08/05/2016 22:32

My husband used to say such things 'in jest' until I had a really good talk to him about how and why it's sexist bullshit. He now says it about DS too!

Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:33

Four - rapists are raised by people. Often people who have shocking attitudes towards the sex lives of women, I expect. Rapists aren't just men in macs who hide in bushes, they're people who're quite happy to have sex with a girl when she's passed out drunk simply because she's wearing a mini dress and flirted with him all night.

I don't even know where to begin with your post. Why the hell should female rape victims have to include male rape victims into their conversations? Or just females in general wanting to discuss their experiences of violence from men? They will have had a different experience entirely and will not be able to relate in the same ways as they can to other women. Also far more women are raped and sexually assualted than men, there's a different platform for conversation. I'm not minimising the experience of male rape victims, I'm simply saying they don't have to be part of female rape victims conversations, and vice versa. Any rape victim can get good access to support as well.

There was a depressing thread recently asking how many women had experienced sexual assault or violence frommen - about 98% of female responders said they had - from bum pinching to brutal rapes. Can you really not see how someone piping up in a conversation like this to say "but what about the men" is offensive and ridiculous?

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Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:34

Yes. I can see that. But 80,000 rapes and 80,000 rapists are still not the same thing

Way to focus on the important parts here Hmm

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AskBasil · 08/05/2016 22:34

"The above exchange tells me that women get raped. It also tells me that men get raped. So people get raped. Why do we need to talk about one sex and not the other? Why are we not looking at "victims of rape"? "

Rights, so you need to know that 90% of victims of rape are women and 100% of rapists are men.

So the crime is gendered. It's not useful to pretend that there is no difference in the impact of rape and the role of rape in the lives of men and women.

Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:35

Blah he's currently single. Can't imagine why

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Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:37

AskBasil then how do you know a rape has happened if there is not a conviction

FFS. It was only a matter of time before someone hinted that rape victims are liars.

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Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:38

The only way you could know for a fact it did is if it happened to you, and even then all you could say for sure is that you were raped, not that all other rape allegations are true.

Why ever convict any criminal then? Because afterall the judge and jury weren't there were they.

Fuck sake, if anyone ever tells me rape culture doesn't exist I'm gonna send them this thread

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AskBasil · 08/05/2016 22:38

Four, what's your point about 80,000 rapists?

I've already answered that, it's 80,000 rapes. But as Doinitfine points out, they aren't all being committed by the same guy. And in spite of the high rate of repeat offending, it's not that high - that's still an awful lot of rapists out there.

And of course, well over 90% of rapists are known to their victims. The reason the victim is alone with them, is because she knows and trusts them. They don't have devil's horns. They're someone's son.

DoinItFine · 08/05/2016 22:39

We're basically back to "a rape didn5happen unless a man says it happened,"

A woman'seeking evidence counts for less.

At least some countries are honest about that reality.

AskBasil · 08/05/2016 22:39

chilledwarmth, the probability of 85000 women lying to an anonymous researcher is pretty low.

Fourormore · 08/05/2016 22:41

So then why not say "Actually, while we understanding the traumatising impact of rape on male victims of rape, this is a discussion about female victims, because we feel that different sexes experiences are different and need to be resolved as such" rather than "Oh poor menz"? Can you really not see why, when you're talking about two victims, one of those responses is reasonable and one is dismissive and offensive?

"Rapists aren't just men in macs who hide in bushes, they're people who're quite happy to have sex with a girl when she's passed out drunk simply because she's wearing a mini dress and flirted with him all night."
Yes, that second victim would be me. How many women on here are knowingly raising rapists? When you say "If you're not raising a rapist then this doesn't apply to you", how many mothers on here sit up and think "Oh god yeah that's me, I'm raising a rapist?"

If the discussion is about serious issues, don't mock with stupid comments.

AskBasil · 08/05/2016 22:42

I don't suppose there are many mothers (or fathers) who knowingly raise rapists.

But then, most rapists don't think they're rapists do they?

AskBasil · 08/05/2016 22:45

Fourormore, do you really think women are under the obligation to heavily politely caveat every single conversation they ever had, whenever someone attempts to de-rail it by trying to centre men at the centre of a discussion about women?

How about people just stop doing that? How about allowing women to talk about stuff which is serious, which has a hugely detrimental impact on women, without derailing and then expecting those women to be faultlessly polite and gracious every single time?

It's exhausting.

Fourormore · 08/05/2016 22:45

"It's not useful to pretend that there is no difference in the impact of rape and the role of rape in the lives of men and women."

So perhaps my difficulty with Feminism is that it looks at Women and Men rather than looking at people as individuals. Because no, seeing how rape affects the women I provide therapy for and how it affects the men I provide therapy for, I'm not looking at the statistics, I'm looking at the people in front of me. And when one of those issues is that men don't speak up about it because of the shame surrounding it, and when Feminists are sat around saying "Poor menz", then I can't engage with Feminism. I have to go with the small f feminism that can hold both the Feminist view and the fact that some "gendered" issues also affect men.

Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:46

four TBF I've never seen a "menz" comment in relation to male victims of rape, and I doubt anyone ever would. It was a hypothetical example, you're getting angry about something that hasn't actually happened.

And don't be obtuse - you know as well as I that the "if you're not raising a rapist" meant if you're not spewing out mysoginistic crap and teaching boys to protect their sister's vagina then you probably have very little to worry about

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Fourormore · 08/05/2016 22:47

I don't suppose there are many mothers (or fathers) who knowingly raise rapists.

So then it's not about being "thick skinned" or "feelz". It's that the comment to only be offended if you're raising a rapist was a pointless comment.

Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:48

Fourormore, do you really think women are under the obligation to heavily politely caveat every single conversation they ever had, whenever someone attempts to de-rail it by trying to centre men at the centre of a discussion about women?

Ask don't you know us wimmin should always be well spoken and display good manners, even when people are trying to swerve our discussions about women towards men

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Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 22:49

So perhaps my difficulty with Feminism is that it looks at Women and Men rather than looking at people as individuals

Why is that difficult? Feminism is about women's issues, not people's issues.

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