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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's a bit weird when men get over protective about their DDs having boyfriends?

331 replies

PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 15:11

BIL has a thing about his DD getting a boyfriend (she's only 5!) and keeps saying things like he'll wait at home with a baseball bat when she goes on her first date and tells her she can't have a boyfriend until she's 21. Apparently he "knows what lads that age are like and how they treat girls" Hmm He doesn't do it in a jokey way either has no sense of humour.

This isn't the first time I've encountered this over protective attitude, and it's often portrayed on TV/films too. AIBU to think it's ridiculous and unhealthy? My dad was always fine with me having BFs as a teen, as long as they were treating me right.i think it's rather unfair to assume all boys are shitheads to girls.

OP posts:
TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 20:43

And why would someone without a victimhood complex (garnered from reddit, youtube and MRA websites) ever think there was going to "be one rule for men and another for women"?

TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 20:46

chillipepper

Where in that document did you get that?

A lot of books and boring essays about criminal law many years ago.

FlowersAndShit · 09/05/2016 20:47

I think that a large amount of men, even so called 'decent' men would rape if the opportunity arose and if they knew they had a chance of getting away with it.

I don't have a very high opinion of men as all the men in my family and other men I know are verbally and physically abusive. I think that you can raise a son as best as you can, but he might still rape or hurt someone or be an abuser, there is no guarantee. If I ever have a son, I will try my best to raise him right, but I can't guarantee that as he gets older, he won't do any of the above.

I think this is in part, why a lot of women hope for girls rather than sons, and so called gender disappointment aimed at boys. I think that I would struggle to raise a son, more so than a daughter.

chilipepper20 · 09/05/2016 20:50

A lot of books and boring essays about criminal law many years ago.

is that tongue in cheek? because reading many books and boring essays and having human decency and experience with drunkeness are very different things (I have experience with all four).

CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 20:51

I don't know. I was asking a question because I genuinely didn't know. You appear to be quite hung up on that.
I have never been on Reddit in my life, occasionally go on YouTube for things like makeup/cooking/music videos and MRA websites I have no idea what the feck they are.

PinkyOfPie · 09/05/2016 21:04

I think this is in part, why a lot of women hope for girls rather than sons, and so called gender disappointment aimed at boys. I think that I would struggle to raise a son, more so than a daughter.*

Confused

You think people don't want boys in case they turn into rapists? Views like that just fuel the mysoginistic anti-feminists, and it's quite frankly odd way to think.

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PinkyOfPie · 09/05/2016 21:04

Oops bold fail

OP posts:
KindDogsTail · 09/05/2016 21:08

I am offended about people saying all men are rapists because I have a father, a brother, and a husband, as well as two sons.

Oh, dear. Of course you love them, and you obviously know they don't happen to be rapists.

Sadly though, there may even be people reading this tread whose much loved fathers and step fathers crossed lines they should not have, possibly raped them. Grandfathers the same. Many brothers have attacked or molested their smaller sisters and their sisters friends.

AskingForAPal · 09/05/2016 21:11

"But it's the feeling that some people have no faith in men to not rape that I don't like."

Well, why should we?

  1. to have faith in ALL men not to rape would clearly be ridiculous, someone is doing it, and it's someone with a penis.

  2. to have faith in ANY GIVEN man not to rape is a judgement all women have to make, sometimes multiple times a day. When being offered a lift by a colleague, choosing to walk through a quiet park with a man in it, going on a date, going to bed at night with their husband. We judge based on what we know of the person, how much we trust them generally, and - in the case of strangers or people we're not usually alone with - give some weight to the likelihood of them getting away with it if they tried, and the rest to hope and blind chance.

I'm sorry this thread's been dragged off track, it promised to be interesting. I find the fact that adults even think about a future boyfriend (or girlfriend) while looking at a baby or young child is disturbing to me.

AskBasil · 09/05/2016 21:11

"I am offended that people will look at my sons in years to come and think "he could be a rapist him"

Women will stop wondering which men are rapists and which ones aren't, when men stop raping in the extraordinarily large numbers they do

"It's just all us mothers of boys who are bringing up monsters in the making." Speak for yourself. My son's not a monster in the making.

"Not all men are potential rapists either because not all men want to do it. You only think they are potential rapists because of their genitals and that's it, and that's fucking vile."

And yet, if women give men the benefit of the doubt and trust them and then get raped by them, people say "well what did she expect".

I have on some occasions in the past, declined an invitation to go into a man's house, on the basis that I didn't know him well enough and just felt a bit awkward about it. I've never declined an invitation to a woman's house even when I wasn't as well acquainted with the woman.

Not because of their genitals. But because a man is more likely to attack me than a woman is. And if he did attack me, everyone would say: "well what did she think would happen, going into his house?" "He didn't exactly drag her in there, did he?" "she went willingly".

So if women are cautious around men on the basis of the recorded behaviour of people with the same genitals as them, we're vile, and if we're not and they rape us, we're naieve and foolish and probably lying, because what did we expect?

Schrodinger's Rapist

pearlylum · 09/05/2016 21:16

I think that a large amount of men, even so called 'decent' men would rape if the opportunity arose and if they knew they had a chance of getting away with it.

Hmm
TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 21:21

is that tongue in cheek? because reading many books and boring essays and having human decency and experience with drunkeness are very different things (I have experience with all four).

How long is a piece of string?

For a conviction of rape, the jury must believe that:
A) the victim wasn't consenting
B) a reasonable person in the defendant's position would have realised the victim wasn't consenting.

Have a true desire not to rape, and good judgment, and you're not going to make a decision that a majority of jurors would disagree with.

AskBasil · 09/05/2016 21:21

Actually research shows that if you ask many men if they would rape someone, they say no.

If you describe rape to them but don't call it rape, then they agree that they would do that.

More concerningly, they say they have done that.

Don't mention the r word

PinkyOfPie · 09/05/2016 21:28

FWIW I don't look at boys today and think "he may be a rapist one day". I wouldn't do this with a boy my DD brought home either.

However one simply cannot deny the effects of rape culture and porn culture today's male youths. You just have to look a threads in Chat and AIBU to see women whose DDs have been threatened to be raped "in jest" by male classmates, DSs who are addicted to hardcore porn at age 13 (a great deal of which depicts women being forced into sex and she ends up enjoying it) etc. Not to mention the era of sexting and sending naked pictures, their football idols molesting 15yo girls like its a God given right (and people in their thousands saying it's fine as she asked for it) twats like my BIL perpetuating the belief that real men are sex-mad and the constant objectification of women at every bloody turn of every bloody day.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a problem needs their head testing - and anyone who has a son has an obligation to womankind and mankind to steer them fully in the right direction. Your sons will be affected by this culture - it's up to you to teach them morals and decency in the face of it all

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chilipepper20 · 09/05/2016 21:45

How long is a piece of string?

not sure why you are asking that. I asked a pretty straightforward question, and still don't know for certain the answer to it, which is fine.

In case it is not remembered my two questions were can drunk people consent, to which the answer appears to be true if the article you posted is correct, and is there a specific bar to determine "too drunk" (and the answer appears to be no. no doubt extreme cases are clear). I don't know to which country that article pertains.

In any case, I was genuinely wondering the position of the law, not about how good judgement and good intentions will probably put you on the good side of a jury.

LyndaNotLinda · 09/05/2016 22:30

I have read the whole thread Narp.

What I find most depressing is the unwillingness of so many posters to engage with the concept that the only way we will stop our sons (I have one too) becoming rapists is to talk to them about consent. About porn. About women's bodily autonomy. Repeatedly and at length.

Because that is the only way we can be sure that they won't grow up to be tomorrow's rapists. It is not good enough to put your fingers in your ears and cry that your lovely little boy isn't a monster. Of course he isn't! But unless you work very hard to demolish some of the prevailing narratives that he is going to encounter as he grows up, he may well become a rapist.

And on the subjects of monsters. My rapists (lucky me - it's happened twice) did not believe they'd raped me. Either of them. They come across as perfectly nice men which is why I ended up being raped by them. And I'm sure that their mothers would be as horrified as some of you are at the idea that their beloved sons are rapists. They aren't monsters but they are rapists.

KindDogsTail · 09/05/2016 22:33

AskBasil
Actually research shows that if you ask many men if they would rape someone, they say no.
If you describe rape to them but don't call it rape, then they agree that they would do that.
More concerningly, they say they have done that
.

I read that too. I think it might have been this article.

www.wcsap.org/sites/www.wcsap.org/files/uploads/webinars/SV%20on%20Campus/Repeat%20Rape.pdf

AskingForAPal · 09/05/2016 22:36

Chili is there a reason you weren't just as capable of googling that as I was? Here's the CPS guidance on consent including alcohol.

It's perfectly obvious that there's no exact definition of how drunk someone can/cannot be. What exactly would that look like exactly? "3" "65%" "As drunk as a skunk"? It's to do with a multitude of factors. That link may help you understand it, and then contemplate how juries have to use their judgement.

KindDogsTail · 09/05/2016 22:36

LyndaNotLinda
And on the subjects of monsters. My rapists (lucky me - it's happened twice) did not believe they'd raped me. Either of them. They come across as perfectly nice men which is why I ended up being raped by them. And I'm sure that their mothers would be as horrified as some of you are at the idea that their beloved sons are rapists. They aren't monsters but they are rapists.

I am very sorry that happened. Flowers

LyndaNotLinda · 09/05/2016 22:50

Thank you KindDogs. They were a long time ago. I have never told a single person in real life about the second one.

KindDogsTail · 09/05/2016 23:01

LyndaNotLinda That is so awful for you. It happened to someone I know and the muffling is as bad as anything in my opinion.

chilipepper20 · 09/05/2016 23:13

Chili is there a reason you weren't just as capable of googling that as I was?

because someone wrote with such confidence that I thought they knew. I then got dragged into a somewhat strange conversation about sense and good intentions, which came with a link that didn't answer my question.

I wrote those posts in a rushed manner. I was going to google. Thanks for the link as it does in fact answer my question.

What exactly would that look like exactly? "3" "65%" "As drunk as a skunk"?

I didn't know what to expect as the law can be weird sometimes, but in fact the law is pretty much what I thought it was. As you say, there is no clear cut criteria, which is why it gets complicated.

AskingForAPal · 09/05/2016 23:21

OK chili, consider me mollified :) Glad your question got an answer in the end anyway. CPS guidance can be quite hard to find which is a shame as it's so important.

Theydontknowweknowtheyknow · 10/05/2016 06:37

Haven't rtft but wanted to say a million times yes to this!

The attitude that daughters have to exhibit a higher level of moral behaviour whilst encouraging your son to go out and sow their seeds bcs it was "a man thing" drives me nuts beyond belief.

It's not healthy for girls because it makes them feel ashamed as if they are disappointing their fathers if they have feelings of sexual agency.

KindDogsTail · 10/05/2016 09:56

On the other hand please do not go the other way and make very young girls, and boys for that matter, feel they have to be sexual and fall prey to feeling they have to have anal sex and give blow jobs before they have even had a chance to hold hands or get a bunch of flowers.