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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's a bit weird when men get over protective about their DDs having boyfriends?

331 replies

PinkyOfPie · 08/05/2016 15:11

BIL has a thing about his DD getting a boyfriend (she's only 5!) and keeps saying things like he'll wait at home with a baseball bat when she goes on her first date and tells her she can't have a boyfriend until she's 21. Apparently he "knows what lads that age are like and how they treat girls" Hmm He doesn't do it in a jokey way either has no sense of humour.

This isn't the first time I've encountered this over protective attitude, and it's often portrayed on TV/films too. AIBU to think it's ridiculous and unhealthy? My dad was always fine with me having BFs as a teen, as long as they were treating me right.i think it's rather unfair to assume all boys are shitheads to girls.

OP posts:
chilipepper20 · 09/05/2016 12:37

Drunk? The law is pretty clear on that one - if you're drunk, you're incapable of consent. Anyone who has sex drunk is taking that risk.

is this actually true? are you talking about the UK?

CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 12:57

im assuming that men who are drunk are incapable of consent too? How is it fair that if both are out of it, he gets locked up for having sex that neither of them really consented to? Or if he's out of it and she isn't, she's basically free to do as she pleases with him?

Do you not think that's all a bit fucked up and one sided? I'm not denying that women have been raped when they have been too drunk to give consent, bit men are human as well and they also get drunk.

Sorry, "menz". HmmHmmHmm

CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 13:01

Should add to that last sentence, men also get drunk and also could get taken advantage of. Not to mention when both man and woman are drunk and have a one night stand, and then she wakes up in the morning and it's basically her word against his, and he is labelled a rapist.

How many people have one night stands when drunk? A lot. A lot of the time both the man and woman are too drunk to give "consent". So why does he get a criminal record because of it? He didn't know what he was doing either.

TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 13:09

The level of drunkenness at which one is incapable of consenting is rather beyond a bit tipsy.

I am not convinced two people at that point would be capable of having sex without assistance from a sober third party.

Your second concern is just odd. Yes, of course it's a crime if a sober woman has sex with a man too drunk to consent.

CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 13:10

It's not odd. Would she get convicted for taking advantage of him? I hope so. It's about equality isn't it?

TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 13:12

Oh, cross-post. [sigh]

You have the whole internet at your fingertips. Come back when you know the main two criteria for most criminal convictions, and have looked up the legal status of intoxication over the years.

chilipepper20 · 09/05/2016 13:14

The level of drunkenness at which one is incapable of consenting is rather beyond a bit tipsy.

I am not a lawyer so do not know the law. What is the level of drunkiness beyond which you cannot legally consent?

CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 13:14

It's a serious question. People on here seem wise and clued up so they probably know. If a man is too drunk to give consent and a woman takes advantage of him, what punishment does she get?

This is where feminism contradicts itself I bet.

TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 13:15

It's not odd. Would she get convicted for taking advantage of him? I hope so. It's about equality isn't it?

Yes. It is odd. It's on a par with a grown adult asking me whether it's okay for women to steal Kit-Kats from the local off-licence after 9pm. As in, "why would you ask that, of course it's still stealing?!"

And again, yes, she would. As I have already told you, complete with shocked italics

CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 13:20

Well that's good then. 👍🏻

TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 13:36

chilli

Being a lawyer is not necessary. All that is needed is a pre-existing grasp of human decency followed by a good number of encounters with a number of drunken people, under various levels of intoxication. Being a student usually satisfies the second condition. Wink

But if you want a legal discussion, go here: www.doughtystreet.co.uk/documents/publications/Joe_Stone_Article_alcalc_agt039_(1).pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjZ1d-E_8zMAhUBaxQKHQmrAFEQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNHphdpar5_F9mSFBxiB6N6U0ax4rw&sig2=tRFhwnbxp36aYe9G_Xob2Q

Toddzoid · 09/05/2016 13:39

Misogynistic and misandric if you ask me. It's presuming that all women are lowly. delicate little flowers that need protecting and that young men are all animals.

I'd be embarrassed if my dad was like this.

chilipepper20 · 09/05/2016 15:19

All that is needed is a pre-existing grasp of human decency followed by a good number of encounters with a number of drunken people,

neither alone, nor both together, gives any insight into the law, which is why I asked. Perhaps a straightforward answer would go further in clarifying.

RufusTheReindeer · 09/05/2016 15:37

chil

She did give you a straight forward answer , she linked to it

RufusTheReindeer · 09/05/2016 15:38

Or you could use that google think which seems to be all the rage

I cant get on with it myself....it never gives me a straight forward answer Hmm

RufusTheReindeer · 09/05/2016 15:38

Thing....not think Grin

TaraCarter · 09/05/2016 16:41

Rufus Grin

chilledwarmth · 09/05/2016 17:48

Pounding, I don't think that a refusal to automatically accept a rape allegation as true means that you think women are inherently vindictive. It just means that you do not accept allegations without something to back them up. However if you maintain the argument that it is, the flipside is that you are saying men have inherent rapist tendencies.

False allegations can and do happen so it is very dangerous to dismiss them and automatically believe an accuser because "not many women would want to put themselves through that if it were false surely". What about the ones who do?

sashh · 09/05/2016 17:56

BIL has a thing about his DD getting a boyfriend (she's only 5!) and keeps saying things like he'll wait at home with a baseball bat when she goes on her first date and tells her she can't have a boyfriend until she's 21.

She might prefer women.

im assuming that men who are drunk are incapable of consent too? How is it fair that if both are out of it, he gets locked up for having sex that neither of them really consented to? Or if he's out of it and she isn't, she's basically free to do as she pleases with him?

Because the crime of rape is inserting a penis into a vagina, anus or mouth. Other crimes have other definitions.

Ie it is the man doing the insertion (horrible way to phrase it). Take another crime, drink driving. Is someone is drunk, drives their car on to the pavement and kills someone we don't take in to account how much the dead person had to drink, or suggest how they could have avoided the car.

Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 09/05/2016 18:01

chilled what proof would a victim of rape have to show you before you're satisfied?

And there are very few false rape allegations, compared to the 85,000 rapes of women and 12,000 of men. So not sure why you'd focus on them

Cant generally it's easier for a woman to be raped by a man than a man raped by a woman. Almost all of the 12,000 rapes that happen to men, are committed by other men.

I know you want to probably deny the existence of predatory men because you can't bear your special snowflake sons being anything but upstanding citizens, but the fact is, men rape. They rape both women and men, and too right the male sex should be blamed for this epidemic (it is an epidemic with those stats no matter how much people on this thread are trying to mansplain it away). Why anyone would take this personally I'll never know.

OP posts:
CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 19:17

Why on earth are you referring to my sons as special snowflakes like that? They are little children. Give them a break for another 10-15 years for gods sake. Jesus Christ.

CantWaitForWarmWeather · 09/05/2016 19:20

And just for the record, women commit crimes too. Might not be rape but women murder, steal, drink drive, etc... So if you think about it, any of our children could be criminals when they grow up.

Just sayin'.

chilipepper20 · 09/05/2016 19:35

She did give you a straight forward answer , she linked to it

I typed my response before I saw the link.

However, did either of you read the link? it's neither a link to a specific case (it's an editorial), nor does it clarify what "too drunk" means. In fact, the case that it does mention makes clear that "too drunk" is too hard is a concept that's too hard to make clear on account of various issues.

what proof would a victim of rape have to show you before you're satisfied?

I don't know, and if you read the link posted by Tara this is in fact a very difficult legal question, so I am in good company. there is no simple answer.

Original poster
PinkyOfPie · 09/05/2016 19:38

Because you come across very offended at people saying that men are rapists and I believe based on your earlier comments that it's because you have 3 sons.

So people commit crimes - what's your point? People are more likely to commit murder if their parents bring them up with the attitude that murder is something they're entitled to do and probably the victim was asking for it anyway

OP posts: