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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

close to death giving birth...

330 replies

ghostspirit · 05/05/2016 09:58

im coming up 38 weeks pregnant. me and bf was talking generally about the birth. im having home birth and was telling him how midwife was saying how if i have to be transfered to hospital it could take upto 30 mins for an ambulance... he said thats rubbish they would get it there within a few mins or so. Then he started going on about how when you give birth your very close to death. of course i know there is a risk when giving birth. i said you can say that about alot of things there are risks in everything. i was trying to tone it down a bit. but he kept going on. it pissed me of because its not something i really want to hear when im not far of giving birth. so was he being unreasonble to be saying them things or am i being over sensitive

OP posts:
Original poster
ghostspirit · 05/05/2016 12:12

chained im sorry to hear what happend in your situation. glad that your baby is ok now? would you say that for every home birth? also the midwife has never said the baby is at risk. they have said they are concerned about my bleeding. but have also added that the risk of it is low given my history and we are doing all we can to prevent it

OP posts:
Original poster
ghostspirit · 05/05/2016 12:13

im seeing consultant tomorrow. head of midwifes said i was low risk.

OP posts:
MatildaTheCat · 05/05/2016 12:18

Sorry, I find that extremely difficult to believe. You must be massively anaemia to be having your current treatment and this is your sixth labour. Both of which are huge risks. Next you'll be telling us you've had a couple of c sections and bled after every delivery and are still considered low risk.

OP, I mean this nicely, don't have a home birth. You only need to see one major haemorrhage in your life to understand just how life threatening it is.

MatildaTheCat · 05/05/2016 12:19

Anaemic, not anaemia.

Original poster
ghostspirit · 05/05/2016 12:24

matilda Next you'll be telling us you've had a couple of c sections and bled after every delivery and are still considered low risk that seems a very odd thing to say?

im only repeating on here what i have been told by midwife.

OP posts:
Alfieisnoisy · 05/05/2016 12:27

Blimey bluecarpet you're a bringer of joy aren't you?

OP as an ex MW I would say you have been made aware of the risks....there are risks to ANY birth regardless of where you are. In some cases you are safer at home as you have less risk of hospital induced complications. If you have no history of haemorrhaging after birth then the likelihood is that you won't do so this time either. The risk is higher but not significantly so if you are in good health with no previous history of bleeding.

You're doing your best to ensure that you are in good health for the birth..a degree of anaemia is to be expected but again if it doesn't differ too much from previous pregnancies then that's reassuring.

Yes you have to be aware of how long it takes to get to hospital as that helps you to make an informed decision about whether home or a hospital is the right place for you.

Have a chat with the consultant but you are probably low risk if all your previous births have been uncomplicated. Slightly higher risk than someone having a second baby perhaps but probably not significantly.

Original poster
ghostspirit · 05/05/2016 12:35

thank you alfie yes in a nut shell that is just it. i have had anemia in the past. im not sure if im more anaemic than in the past or not. i was not told to have b12 or iron infusions in the past. this time i have. but then i guess thats to up my iron and make it better than it is. there for hopefully lowering the risk. there is not any history of to much bleeding in my other births. they all say unevenful

OP posts:
Cabrinha · 05/05/2016 12:44

YABU.

The reason your boyfriend made a throwaway comment about labour be close to death, is because he has the vague knowledge that there at always risks involved in labour - and sometimes death - and is frankly too dim to phrase it any other way.

Your boyfriend is thick.

But you know that so YABU to get the hump about his phrasing now.

Can't believe you're still with this loser Hmm

Original poster
ghostspirit · 05/05/2016 12:56

cab thank you for your reply. in general things are much better than they were, hes much more supportive and hands on. hes a bit of a dick at times but im sure everyone is.

OP posts:
bluecarpet · 05/05/2016 12:57

Blimey bluecarpet you're a bringer of joy aren't you?

I'm a human being, and a doctor, and in my six month obstetric job I saw at least ten cases where unexpected complications happened in low risk women and if they had been at home then baby and/or mother would have been dead or severely affected. A woman on her 6th child is at a higher than average risk of a post partum bleed, whether anaemic or not. some ambulance trusts are now setting targets of 15 minutes for heart attacks - how quickly do you think they are going to get to a woman in labour?

I cannot understand, when women in developing countries would give their right arm for safe obstetric care, women in this country reject it.

Cabrinha · 05/05/2016 13:00

That's just it though ghost, most people aren't a bit of a dick at times, you bar is too low.

I stand by my comment though - he's not very bright and it was a bad was to phrase what is a fact - that giving birth is not risk free.

I wouldn't lose any sleek over his inability to express himself well.

minifingerz · 05/05/2016 13:55

"I'm a human being, and a doctor, and in my six month obstetric job I saw at least ten cases where unexpected complications happened in low risk women and if they had been at home then baby and/or mother would have been dead or severely affected"

Why then do you think there is no evidence of higher rates of mortality and morbidity in low risk mothers who opt for homebirths? And the babies of all except first time mothers.

The Birthplace study 2011 on which NHS recommendations on place of birth are based simply doesn't support your assumptions.

In fact it shows that low risk mothers who labour in hospital are more likely to end up in a HDU than mothers who labour outside of one.

Go figure!

minifingerz · 05/05/2016 13:57

Oh, and as one of the main life threatening risks connected with childbirth is a DVT, why on earth would it be safer for a low risk mother to labour in a setting which puts her much higher risk of emergency surgery?

ollieplimsoles · 05/05/2016 14:03

I really wanted a homebirth with dd, I chose to be induced in hospital though as she went over due.

We have had a few hb in my area lately and the midwives are very quick to transfer you if they think something is going to happen.

honeyandmarmitesandwiches · 05/05/2016 14:08

I would be so upset and pretty furious if my OH said something like that to me a few weeks off giving birth. What on earth is he thinking? Awful. Poor you, YANBU at all.

bluecarpet · 05/05/2016 14:11

Why then do you think there is no evidence of higher rates of mortality and morbidity in low risk mothers who opt for homebirths? And the babies of all except first time mothers.

the research isn't that clear cut. these complications are rare and some of the studies aren't big enough to have the power to detect rare complications. and the mortality/morbidity in home births should be significantly lower than hospital births given that most women who opt for homebirth (OP excepted) are low risk.

The NHS push for home births is politically driven and not evidence based.

Safest compromise for someone who wants low intervention is a MW led unit that is next door to the labour ward, so that the transfer time is seconds/minutes. Home births and MW led units in the community are riskier.

in a setting which puts her much higher risk of emergency surgery?

this may surprise you, but we weren't stalking round LW looking for women to pounce on and do unnecessary caesareans. they were done only when the health/life of the mother and/or baby were at risk.

bluecarpet · 05/05/2016 14:12

very quick to transfer you

but the speed isn't in the midwives power, it's up to ambulance control and therefore depends on how busy you are.

bluecarpet · 05/05/2016 14:12

sorry, how busy they are that should have said

TealLove · 05/05/2016 14:15

To be fair if I'd have had a home birth I wouldn't be here. If you do have a bleed they need to be there immediately, literally at that moment.
I know this isn't the experience for every woman but it can happen and there is a risk.
I am not saying all Women would have the same experience as me!

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2016 14:16

Anecdotes do not equal evidence based medicine.

Even if you are a doctor on an obstetric ward. ESPECIALLY if you are a doctor on an obstetric ward.

Evidence based medicine exists because you can have a biased viewpoint if you work in medicine due to anecdotes and personal experience.

There is validity in saying X, Y, Z happens, but if you are using your authority as a doctor to say that your viewpoint based on anecdotes is superior to other view points in the thread that is wrong as it is biased and not necessarily reflective of the wider picture.

In this case the evidence research for low risk women, is very different to what you have just said and much to suggest that complications are arising BECAUSE women are in hospital rather than being safer because of it OR they have been incorrectly categorised as low risk for some reason.

Women can and should be allowed to make informed decisions. When someone doesn't convey the full story they are unable to make an informed decision.

I think in this case, the argument is over whether the OP is high or low risk rather than whether home birth is dangerous for low risk women (the research says on balance no). The fact she has a history of fast births is also a relevant consideration, even if she is high risk because of the emergency scenarios that could arise from that, if she was to plan a hospital birth.

Lets not forget that the OP giving birth in a car on the way to the hospital and then having a bleed too is a real possibility too.

So I see it as far less black and white than one being more risky per se than the other.

splendide · 05/05/2016 14:21

TealLove - that may be right but because there is no greater maternal morbidity for home births that must mean there are an equal number of women who would be dead if they'd given birth in a hospital. Or to flip it, women who died in hospital who would have lived in a home birth.

Miloarmadillo1 · 05/05/2016 14:27

I think he's insensitive, but he has a point. 30+ minutes is far too long to get to hospital if something should go seriously wrong. If you labour rapidly then things can go wrong rapidly too. I had a massive PPH after my 2nd 'low risk' birth and only survived because I was in the MLU attached to delivery suite, so when they pulled the red cord a herd of people came running, and I was in surgery and having blood pumped in well before 30 mins had elapsed.

TealLove · 05/05/2016 14:27

I know. It's just really hard to look at rational figures when it's happened to you. I get twitchy when I hear women have been advised and they choose not to. I had a normal labour and delivery but within seconds of DD coming out I was out cold.

Don't read on if it may be triggering ---
When I woke up it was like the Texas chainsaw massacre.
It happens so quickly DH said they just got me right in seconds and had it been minutes longer I wouldn't be here.

To be fair my grandmother passed away in the same way and left twins and 4 other children. So I had history in my family. But if you have been advised I think you should go with what the doctors / MW say.
Ultimately it's obviously the OPs choice.

bluecarpet · 05/05/2016 14:29

Women can and should be allowed to make informed decisions

agree

a woman having her sixth child who has been told by a MW that she is low risk, is not making an informed decision as she has been poorly informed by that MW. hopefully the consultant will give a more realistic picture.

CountessOfStrathearn · 05/05/2016 14:33

bluecarpet, "the mortality/morbidity in home births should be significantly lower than hospital births given that most women who opt for homebirth (OP excepted) are low risk."

Have you read the study? It only looked at low risk mothers, so that can't be used to discredit it.

www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7400

(Also a doctor, have had a home birth, big fan of evidence based medicine)