To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

Yes it's only school friends, I know then all. But sometimes one of them will try to be cool and start swearing or boasting. Unfortunately he's not the only one with a bad mouth.

I taught a child like this. His mother would still shower him with treats and only remove them if he got lots of sad faces in his behaviour book. This meant he could behave well for him (still badly for any other NT child) and get everything he usually did.

You'll be on his side an awful lot more by helping him to fit in at school (and also work in the future). He won't just learn how to by himself.

Something I drum into my DS is that "you can't control others actions, but you can control your reaction to it".

There is a book called the explosive child by Ross Greene. He talks about finding a plan B to problems. This involves conversations around why the child is behaving the way they are which would allow for the understanding that you so obviously want to in still. it talks about joint problem solving and how sanctions just don't work.
I am a teacher and our whole school behaviour philosophy is built around this way of approaching and solving problems.
It is honestly well worth a read for any parent but sounds like it could really help this situation. It is very easy to read (I think I did the whole book in about three days). good luck

Could be how the teacher addresses disruptive behaviour too. I think she needs to address that. I am a teacher and my students became disruptive when they were bored or when mylessons weren't up to scratch. Is the child bored? Why are other kids trying to wind him up? Are her strategies for dealing with disruptive behaviour ineffective?

A lot of posters said what I wanted to.
"She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk".
SquiggleGirl: "And she's right. This is about him. Nobody MADE him swear. Nobody MADE him answer back. These are choices he's making".

He needs to hear this and understand it.

Glad to hear you are upping your game.

It needed upping.

Op focus on your own DS I am sure there are other "spirited" dc in school.

But dont worry about them - concentrate on your own. As PP said this is the best way to be on his side.

I can't pm for the iPhone app so will risk outing myself...

Alarmbells my Dss had similar issues although he was 10/11 at the time. His mum, like you just wouldn't see his behaviour or that her glossing over it was making it worse. Dp and I have worked bloody hard to set boundaries and consequences for him to teach him that certain behaviours are not acceptable.

He too used to blame other kids and it took an awful lot of tears and tantrums to make him see that he behaved in the same way towards other people, for example he used to lose the plot of people were whispering. He was convinced they were talking about him. But him and dsd would whisper incessantly in the car or on the sofa and refuse to acknowledge me asking them anything. Pointing out that his behaviour at home was exactly the same as what he was complaining of in school so why was it ok for him to do that but not others helped him understand a lot.

He has grown out of most of it ignoring the throwing a shoe at lads in science last year and now at nearly 13 he is so much better behaved.

Alarm, sorry this happened and really impressed at your response to some harsh comments.

One thing I would say is that I agree with not punishing twice- but he is not being punished at school, is he? Getting told off within the extremely strict limits of school policy and the teacher's own understanding of her responsibilities is unlikely to be more than 'X, that is unacceptable behaviour, we don't do that in this class. Apologise to Y please.' So not a punishment or even a deterrent for a child who has their own reasons for the behaviour, be they SN or a need for attention and control. From that POV, don't feel guilty about any discipline strategies you need to use.

Good points emilybohmeia, Op would need to find out - whether her son has started to be disruptive in this teachers class only or has been generally disruptive.

Then she could proceed.

No need to feel defeated, Alarm ... horrible as it's been, this can be the start of much better things if you choose to make it that way. Granted he'll probably kick for a while, but you could end up with a son who you not only love but have every reason to be proud of too - and what could be more "on his side" than that?

Definitely have a talk with the teacher, tell her that you really do want to work together on this and mean it - I think you'll find she'll be delighted. I really wouldn't start suggesting that they break up the 6 hours for him, though; it will sound like more excuse-making which is to be avoided, and schools can be trusted to differentiate for individual needs anyway

You sound like you're taking this all on board, no easy task.

You mention that you're going to remove privileges.

If this is the way you proceed it can help to be very clear why they have been removed (i.e. Because his behaviour was so disruptive in class, caused distress to his teacher and meant you had to go into school), for how long the punishment will continue and what behaviour needs to be seen to have them back.

At eight I still think most punishments need to be immediate and fairly short lived - there always needs to be opportunity for improvement in behaviour.

if you play this right-cool, factual, and ask for a written plan with goals and timelines and how tos , your son may come out of this with real help instead of passing the buck to you AND ct will learn to be more professional. Win win IMO.

This has got heated.

I am a teacher and have had a hell of a year with a particular pupil. He is secondary age (so older than your DS) and his behaviour and attitude has been atrocious. This has been enabled by parents who refuse to accept that he is in the wrong/continually make excuses. It's coming from a loving place-they are simply trying to protect him but by doing so, they're actually stopping him from understanding accountability and responsibility. We ALL get it wrong sometimes (as you've seen from hearing the private conversation) and a big part of life is accepting our mistakes and dealing with the consequences. It's only by doing so that we learn and develop.

A teacher Losing their temper in school and calling a parent to a meeting is not a "punishment" for a child; it's an inconvenience. I understand that for you perhaps the teacher shouting at your son counts as a consequence/punishment, but it's not. This needs to come from you; you need to make it clear that his behaviour isn't appropriate and teach him that his behaviour Cannot be accommodated when there are 25 other kids in the room wanting to learn. He is derailing that and, as a parent, I'd be wanting to reinforce the message that it's simply not on.

Certainly talk about feelings/triggers etc. but it's your role to show that impulses must be controlled. Talking and reasoning isn't working so you must be firm. Removal of privilege for up to a week seems like it would send the message. If you tell him you're taking something away, you must follow through. Be prepared for the poor behaviour to resurface once the privilege is returned. This doesn't mean it hasn't worked, it just means that he's pushing boundaries. If he steps out of line again, remove the privilege for a longer period. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Your DS needs to see that you and the school are a partnership working TOGETHER to help him rectify his behaviour. If he had a specific learning need then you'd be doing everything you could to support the school and this is no different, If he gets a stern message at school which is brushed under the carpet it at home, it's no wonder he doesn't take notice of the consequences at school. I would be asking to meet with the teacher and be honest about over-hearing her conversation-not to give her a bollocking but to explain that, while it made you angry, you understand
How frustrated she must feel to say that and that you will do what you can to support her in changing your sons behaviour. Don't get mad at her-use it as a wake up call to change the way YOU approach supporting your son's school.

The boy I've taught this year is likely to leave school with few qualifications and the attitude that the world will provide for him. He will get a shock when he starts working and his parents can't step in and excuse him at every opportunity.

Good luck op, you have had some fab advice here on how to proceed.

From bitter experience I would probably hide this thread now, there is nothing more to be said and it could turn nasty!

Alarm I am late to the thread but just wanted to add some support, I am a lone parent with an only 10yo dd and of course you are going to feel defensive and want to be on your ds side.

Fwiw I would have been devastated to have overheard that and I think the teacher was out of order. It does sound like the teacher actively dislikes your son which isn't going to help improve his behaviour.

I think you need to work out a plan with the school and be consistent. However just punishing isn't really going to tackle the root cause, there also needs to be rewards and incentives for him to improve. Can the school do any work on dealing with anger/ difficult emotions?

I do think a spy cam in school would be useful for times like this

Don't beat yourself up, being a parent is hard work and

not fair to poke someone when you know they have a short fuse.

I'd agree - but they do it because he has a short fuse - if he stopped reacting they'd stop teasing him.

OP your getting a hard time - as a parent who has had to remove one child from school because of a boy like your son (along with three other children) I know how much this behaviour upsets other children who want to work in school - who are fed up of the teachers full attention being one that one child.

It may seem petty - but it doesn't get better - it gets worse -

High school won't stand for it and he will be isolated and in detention and his education will suffer

High school pupils will see him differently to his current class and he will stifle to make friends and may well make the wrong sort

Please sort it out while you can control him - teach him the right way before he gets too big

Difficult situation. Had the teacher been out of ear shot then you would not know. She is entitled to her view. I am not she was unprofessional - had she said this to you directly then that would have been unprofessional

"we are talking about YOUR behaviour though"

that's fair enough. I would stick that message at work as a manager, I use that approach with my dcs. I'm not going to share with individuals what is going on in my dealings with other individuals. My job, at this moment, is to talk to YOU about helping YOU behave.

The talk of "smirking" etc sounds as if she has a manner which you interpret as patronising, which is unfortunate, but doesn't change the legitimacy of the content.

We had one like this the other year. He could do no wrong in his mother's eyes. Every time she was brought in because of his behaviour (every week, just about) she'd moan on about 'the other children' and excuse her son's terrible attitude and behaviour. She accused the teachers of victimising her ds. He was violent, abusive and workshy. In the end she decided to take him out of the school, saying that the school had always had it in for him and he'd shine at his next school.

Within 2 weeks at his next school, he'd been excluded.

Your ds needs to accept the blame and consequences when he messes up. He will never learn and will be a total nightmare as an adult.

Well first of, a big well done to you alarm you have taken what everyone has said and actually thought about it and realised that it is not all black and white.

The teacher is probably at the end of her tether and probably felt a bit unsupported by you.

I think restricting the Internet and X box would probably be a good start.
At least making sure age controls are on them so he is not watching anything inappropriate. It may be "babyish" to him but he has to understand that if he cannot control his temper you need to control his environment.

With him having a short fuse, he needs to find ways to manage this. He cannot go around blaming other people for his temper.

I hope you manage to come up with a plan and that everything sorts it self out though

Yes, she was wrong, but everyone let's off steam. I know what you mean about not punishing him twice, but it's not about that. Your DS needs to know that YOU won't tolerate his behaviour.

Girliefriend A spy cam really? The teacher had seen the parent out of school and then returned to have a private conversation. She was unaware that the parent had come back into the building outside of school hours without announcing herself. She was venting to a colleague after what was clearly a frustrating meeting. It does not mean that she dislikes the child or has it in for him. It means that she has raised his behaviour with a parent and has felt she was not listened to or supported. The fact that so many parents expect schools to teach their children manners and how to behave takes a lot of time away from teaching. This kind of attitude is what has good teachers leaving the profession in droves.

OP I think its fair to say that you have had a difficult time this evening but fair play for taking it on board and looking at ways to move forward.

poor teacher. sort your parenting out. Please for her sake. and the sake of the 29 other children in the class .

I'm sorry but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree