To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

Within 2 weeks at his next school, he'd been excluded

This ^^

It happens - a lot

Work with the school and your son

Ask his teacher to report EVERY incident - put him on a behaviour report -

Reward for food behaviour -

It's measured for each lesson - so you can see how he behaves -

If he knows they tell you every time - and he's punished at home - he will improve

While his behaviour is obviously questionable, this is an eight year old she's talking about and the teacher seems to have written him off. Some teachers do sometimes take a dislike to a child. We've had this a couple of times and it does nothing for the child's behaviour or performance. When we've had a lovely teacher again, it makes such a difference. I would be talking to the head about it as, whatever the circumstances, this is very very bad. Op wasn't eavesdropping . She overhead by chance. I would definitely not feel able to work with a teacher who thought I was incompetent and my child.was a.shit. It's a total breech of trust and I'd be looking to move classes

I am a LP with no support ..So I know while I am close to my DS it is my job to parent him as no one else is going to do it.

My approach to school is that if the consequence is in school then leave the school to deal with it but we might chat about it ..what he could of done differently.

If I am spoken to or a letter home then it becomes my issue.

What works with your DS? For my DS removing things never make a difference..Short sharp shocks work better...Early to bed , no trip to the park.. miss a program he wants to watch.. Each child has that thing that will bother them..For my DS the ultimate punishment is to miss cubs.. I have stopped his music lessons in school for half a term when he was behaving badly.

I think your focus is on the wrong things...I tell my DS I am not interested in how other people behave I am interested in how you behave.. You need to get him to think how he can deal with it differently.. I would be pointing out to my DS if he was getting on with his work he wouldn't of been aware of what others were doing.

While you are making any allowances for his behaviour he will feed you anything.Focus on his behaviour ... Make it very clear to him you support the teacher.. While you are asking about the other boys... you are minimising your DS's behaviour and giving him an opt out.

Breach

I highly recommend the Dawn Huebner books (there's a series - my DC has found "What to do when your temper flares" and "What to do when you grumble too much" helpful). You have to work through them together and there are exercises to practise ways of calming down, walking away etc.

Clear punishment for swearing - mine lose iPad privileges for a day -- and maybe restrict device use generally (easier said than done, I know, but eg. Xbox online is really not appropriate at this age - also, what is he playing on the Xbox?)

If I were you I'd ask to see the teacher and SENCO and see if you can devise a common strategy to tackle his behaviour - it will show school and him you're serious about tackling it and consistency should bring better results. Do you know what system they use in the classroom (traffic lights etc)?

Incidentally when my exploding DC has been in trouble the school has actually asked us not to punish twice but to talk it through and reinforce the message. They are also sympathetic to finding out what triggered the behaviour BUT you first have to make clear that the behaviour is unacceptable.

He needs to learn that when his buttons are pushed, yes it isn't fair BUT he has choices about how he responds.

He can ignore it
He can ask the person to stop being annoying.
He can report to the teacher
He can swear at them.

He needs to learn NOT to chooses the last option.

Message to OP I haven't read the whole of this thread, (it's very long) but when I read your first post, I though....OMG, is this poor woman in for a bashing??! But previous posters are right, if you're at the point of having to go in to school to discuss your DS's behaviour...you're doing something wrong!!!

'While his behaviour is obviously questionable, this is an eight year old she's talking about and the teacher seems to have written him off'.

I agree.

I think stating 'the apple doesn't fall from the tree' is unfair. Behavioural problems can also point to other problems and may even point to learning disabilities or some sort of need not being met.

Of course its not nice to hear this about your DS. BUT it was a private conversation to a colleague and sounds like she is absolutely at the end of her tether. Do you know what it's like for a teacher to have a child in their class that is often rude and disruptive? I'm a TA and I feel so genuinely sorry for some teachers who have to deal with children who are so clearly not having any discipline at home for bad behaviour. Some parents, (I'm not saying this is you) simply will NOT believe that their child is anything but perfect. I actually had a child of 9 tell me recently that he could do what the hell he liked at school because his mum would believe whatever he tells her and he's right, she does.

If I were you, I would be working with the school to ensure your DS's behaviour changes for the better and YOU need to be involved in that - don't leave everything up to the school, you have to play your part.

OP, I don't want to repeat everything that others have said, because you're clearly taking it on board. Kudos to you for that.

I will say that I think whilst they are ill advised and undoubtedly unprofessional, the teacher's remarks were probably more of an expression of 'I have no idea how to improve this situation without the parent's support'. I agree with others- forming an action plan and making sure that his behaviour at school impacts on his privileges at home will make a massive difference. I'd also suggest looking at the XBox situation- DH plays this online and I know that a lot of swearing goes on. I'm not sure what your DS is playing, but a lot of the conversations on there are not suitable for an 8 year old.

Wishing you lots of luck. It's not easy to get your head around this stuff. Please be kind to yourself too, you are not a rubbish mum

OP, you are not a shit parent and your DS is not a little shit. He is just behaving in a somewhat shitty way at the moment, and you have to help him to break the cycle.

The teacher shouldn't have used that phrase to describe a child, but she's human, she's at the end of her tether and she thought she was venting behind closed doors. I think you should let it go.

I'm not a fan of punishment myself. My parents never punished me, and I don't think I've ever punished dd. Probably never will. However, I do put a lot of emphasis on thinking about the impact of her behaviour.

Can you get your ds to reflect on how his behaviour is impacting on the teacher and the rest of the class? And to think about how that affects their perceptions and attitudes towards him? In your position, I might be asking dd to write a letter to her teacher, apologising for what she had done and acknowledging why it wasn't acceptable. I'd also expect her to make some commitments about how to improve in the future.

You mentioned that your DS is often reacting to other kids winding him up. That must be annoying but they're not making him do anything. Perhaps you need to think about what you can do to help him manage his impulsive responses more effectively. He needs to learn to "own" his behaviour and take responsibility for his reactions; don't allow him to make any excuses. Could you ask the teacher if she can suggest any strategies to help with this? It would at least show her that you're keen to try.

It must have been really upsetting and difficult overhearing that conversation, but on the positive side, you now have a new perspective on the problem. You're not the only one rooting for your DS, even if it might feel that way right now. His teacher is probably rooting for him as well, and she can see that his attitude - and perhaps your reaction to it - is holding him back. In the long run, you may find that hearing "the truth", however unpalatable, may be a turning point for you in helping your DS to address his behaviour more effectively.

My ds is 10. It's just him and me against the world admitted he doesn't have a difficult relationship with school, but he's 10, he pushes boundaries and he's quick minded. Likes to entertain, chat and play up a bit.

I have had the conversation about swearing. I've been known to swear, we do joke about at home just him and me, but I have been clear about what a bad impression he will give if other adults hear him swearing among his friends etc.

I've also told him that with freedom comes responsibility and that he represents us/me when he's out and about.

He doesn't like it if I sanction him when a teacher has pulled him up, or he's had a detention etc, but I won't have him showing us up. I have to be seen to take this stuff seriously because being a single mothet is enough of a reason for others to criticise and judge.

Your child is 8. This is when this shit starts. Be very frank with him that it stops now, he doesn't ever swear again in school, and has until the end of term to behave or you will instigate a hefty routine at home and there will be home pubishment.

You are not his friend. You are his mother and if we let this stuff get out of hand now when they are in primary, what on earth is it going o be like when they hit teens.

Sit him down and explain the facts of life to him; what his responsibility is and what's expected.

Id also arrange to go and see the teacher you on your own and ask that they draw up a behaviour chart so that you can see every day how he's been.

You have to stop his sulking too. A bad day at school ends at 3.30. It doesn't hang over to home time, nor does it go back to school the next day.

Is he doing any/enough activities?

Is he playing a lot of online/computer games? I suspect that too buggers up their attitude. Make him earn screen time for a week, see how that works?

do put a lot of emphasis on thinking about the impact of her behaviour

Thanks for making them think and go unpunished -

My DD was punished in being removed from a good school away from her friends because she couldn't cope mentally with the constant disruption of others - she was having a mental breakdown - she was unbearable at home because she had no control over the boys behaviour in class - he's still their making the other children ill - can't sleep, school refusal, not eating - dreading another day.

They have a few weeks left - and I haven't heard one parent not counting down the days!

There are cheers that this boy is going to a different high school

He needs help - but his parents aren't listening

Alarm I am so sorry you have had so many incredibly unhelpful and rude comments on here.

I really hope the good comments will be of use. Mumsnet is for support and sadly some people just forget that!

I hope you will find some way to work with the school. I think in your shoes I would be tempted to approach another meeting and try and get to a point of working together with your son's teacher.

The fact you overheard comments spoken by your son's teacher does not constitute eavesdropping, and anyway, the fact the teachers are willing to speak like that to one another on school premises is really appalling IMHO. The fact that other students are winding your son up seems to be completely missed. Of course he should not be rising to the bait, and you need to help him to learn how not to rise to the bait.

I do wonder if, based on what you say, there may be some potential issues like ADHD or ASD, and if you are concerned for this you could ask for an assessment. My dd is not on the spectrum but she does have autistic tenancies and it was helpful to find that out.

Is your son coping wit the work, could there be any chance he is dyslexic and finding the work hard? I tried to read through the comments to find any further comments but the weight of incredibly offensive and insensitive comments was just too depressing to wade through!

I totally understand teachers are only human and of course they will get frustrated with students etc but using that language about a child in their care to a colleague shows to me a very callous attitude. If there was another class to move him to in the same school, and it was felt to be helpful to move him (and he wanted it) I would explore that possibly.

I'd also look out for some books on anger management, emotional management and explore this with your son. Try and work on this together like a project at home. As you say, it is only you and him, reading the book and doing activities etc could be a good thing and could give him tools to help him. The kids who are winding him up are getting a buzz out of his discomfort and teaching him to resist this, and so to thwart their plans, will really help him in life.

What to Do When Your Temper Flares: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Problems with Anger (What-To-Do Guides for Kids)

Amazon suggests lots of books on a similar topic but this is the only one I have used.

Good luck.

It was unprofessional but it was to a colleague and tbh it sounds like you aren't doing much about your sons behaviour. My son has just turned 9 and quite frankly if he behaved like your kid I'd be bloody furious and he knows it. No pussyfooting around at all. You aren't doing him any favours.

Xbox online? At 8? WTF?
He swears at teachers, gets excluded and drives his teacher to call him a "shit"?
Yet you don't believe in consequences?
You need to stop being a friend and start being a parent. Set limits and issue consequences. Stop justifying. (He's not the only one, it's just us, they wind him up, he finds it hard to behave for 6 hours?)
He needs to stop disrupting the learning in the class and you need to start supporting the school.

Thanks for making them think and go unpunished -

I'm not suggesting that the parents should be allowed to shrug it off and do nothing if a child misbehaves. I'm just not convinced myself that punishment works.

I know lots of parents who seem to punish their kids regularly for various misdemeanours. Removing privileges, suspending pocket money etc. For whatever reason, their kids still don't seem to learn.

Personally, I find that making a child reflect properly on the impact and natural consequences of what they have done is more effective.

FWIW, I don't do rewards either. I expect dd to motivate and discipline herself, with guidance and coaching from me as required. It seems to work.

I would be cross too, but at least you know how she feels, that it is genuinely your son who is the problem and she doesn't feel he is being picked on. This is all good to know. That said I think I'd speak to her, tell her you overheard her conversation, you weren't impressed and you are trying to resolve the issue, but you now have concerns about her feelings towards your son. This might make her look at her perception of him again and whether she can do anything else. Just as you'll probably be looking at yours.

I haven't read the whole thread but I have read your OP. Your son sounds very much like a child in my 8 year olds class. He has no manners and disrupts the class constantly. DS and his classmates don't like him because of his attitude in class. Myself and other parents don't like him because he insists on disrupting our children's education. His teacher and TA don't like him because he persists in disrupting lessons they have planned, therefore minimising their targets. Maybe if you teach your child some manners and how to behave in public he would benefit - I'm sure the other 25+ children in his class would be grateful.

I haven't read the whole thread but I have read your OP. Your son sounds very much like a child in my 8 year olds class. He has no manners and disrupts the class constantly. DS and his classmates don't like him because of his attitude in class. Myself and other parents don't like him because he insists on disrupting our children's education. His teacher and TA don't like him because he persists in disrupting lessons they have planned, therefore minimising their targets. Maybe if you teach your child some manners and how to behave in public he would benefit - I'm sure the other 25+ children in his class would be grateful.

Fluffy,I agree!!

Op may have taught him all that for all you know, fluffy. You're being rather judgy, as are many on this thread. Children sometimes misbehave because they are struggling in class or have learning disabilities.Could be far more compley than not having manners.

I know it's been very upsetting hearing his teacher talk like that OP, but it might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. You came on here, all guns blazing but the fact that you have taken on board what a lot of people have said, shows that you ARE a good parent. It will be hard to deal with your son and you might find that some techniques will work and some won't, but you'll get there.

By all means write a letter to the teacher but also explain that you want to try to help your son and are hoping that she will help you by keeping you up to date with any changes in his behaviour.

I do wish people would at least read the ops posts if they can't be arsed reading the whole thread.

But Emily if you know your kid is misbehaving then excusing and justifying and blaming the "poor relationship" with the school will do nothing. You need to support the school and insist on good behaviour.
If he's behaving badly the OP needs to solve that. Not blame the teacher.