To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

Well done alarm

Well done op, it's brave to admit that you've been a bit blind to your DC behaviour.

Full admiration for going back to school and being constructive with them whilst still making your point

Hope the books helps, if you continue to find that your DS still struggles keep seeking for help and answers

Good response OP.
That teacher is by no means unique, we are usually good at being professional, supportive and smiley when onstage with pupils and parents.
However, offstage with friends in private? In the privacy of our own heads? Sometimes venting and frustration occurs. Just like parents at home giving their opinions on things or being pushed to the edge by something.
All over the country, there are teachers who will be in tears in July as they bid farewell to lovely, interesting and memorable pupils. Likewise there will be teachers in June counting down the days when a particular child will become someone else's problem
Remember this thread when you get those bland, inoffensive reports lacking both personality and information with threads about saying 'What does this MEAN?'

Oh well done, Alarm - I'm not at all surprised the teacher was "all smiley" with that response

You'll have wobbles along the way, but onwards and upwards!!

Taking criticism is an art. Alarm's done that brilliantly and that's going to help her a lot in helping her son manage his responses. Sometimes we need to hear uncomfortable truths.

Fucking hell Sula, that's unnecessary

In school, he has an audience egging him on. He's providing entertainment for them, which is why some of them try to provoke him. It's always funnier if the child in trouble isn't you.
Heady stuff for an 8 year old, to be the rebel and the one who's in the spotlight.

On the other hand, the teacher could be pretty dire and not able to engage the children- the idea that every teacher is 'good' at their job is unrealistic. Equally, people are trying to normalise this bad language and and name calling, am I really the only person who does not refer to children as 'little shits'? None of my friends or family talk in this way and we're not church goers or anything!

I'd expect a lot more parents to be complaining if that was the case.
I wonder what the friendship dynamics are, in and out of school, amongst the children.
Whether he's often invited on playdates and such, or if the parents are encouraging their children 'not to play with the naughty boy' and so he's interacting with them by being rude and disruptive, they laugh and he feels validated.

Nice to see an OP take the advice on board. Best wishes

It is shocking that a teacher can refer to children as 'little shits',

Some of you Have. Simply. No. Idea.

It would be shocking if it was to the child, a relative, in the staffroom with TAs and parent helpers there, in his report...a hundred other scenarios.
But in her classroom, to a colleague after yet another frustrating and ineffective meeting at the end of a long day?
Not shocking. Sad, but not shocking.
I'm often startled by how you lot talk to each other on here, the language I hear from parents and the language that many tolerate from their own children.

Its interesting on this thread its profession and professionalism has been thrown about when posting about the teacher, yet on other threads its teaching is just a job like any other.

Some posters need to make their minds up.

Read this from start to finish, OP, you've handled this so bloody well. Kudos!

Do posters really think that doctors and nurses and lawyers and social workers etc don't talk frankly to their colleague after dealing with a PITA customer?
Whatever they say to your face?

So, teacher called unprofessional for venting to a colleague on school premises - it's still within limits of confidentiality.

Mother vents to entire internet about teacher, but that's OK?

I don't get it.

Unfortunate you heard this but tbh I have more sympathy for the teacher based on what you've said, it sounds like you tried to deflect the issue and didn't really accept how disruptive your son is. I would find that very frustrating indeed (although hopefully would have saved my shrieking for the privacy of my own home with a large glass of wine)

OP has moved on and hopefully the rest of the term should be better for everyone concerned, and eventually her son will reap the benefits of a combined effort to help him make better choices.

OP, this is not a "difficult relationship with school" - your DS sounds a nightmare to teach (ex teacher here). And he does not have to be violent to disrupt work. Since you did not mention that your DS has special needs, I would take a look at why his behaviour makes the relationship with school "difficult". It's his behaviour that needs tacking, not the teacher's.

*tackling

Well done OP..Hope things improve for you all..

Alarm I'm really heartened to read your last post.

I get the impression that you are very protective of your son, there's just the two of you (against the world). It's hard.

However, you are doing your son no favours at all by not parenting him consistently when his behaviour at school falls below acceptable levels. If you don't take steps now, once he gets to High School you'll have real problems .

It's good to read about your chat with your son, and also with the teacher. The Daily Log book sounds ideal. It will help to focus his mind on the consequences of his behaviour, particularly as you have now shown him that you are paying attention and monitoring what's going on at school.

My DS had difficulties at school, not like your son's but enough that for a period of a few months I took him home for lunch each day to give everyone (including him) a breathing space while we all worked to help him with his difficulties.

I made a point of including him in all discussions and we talked about what sanctions would be put in place if his behaviour fell below an acceptable level. I made sure he understood that I would do anything to help him through his difficulties but that he had to work hard to help himself.

Eventually it paid off. He knew I was on his side, but also on the side of the school.

The most difficult thing for me was to be consistent when I had to impose sanctions, sometimes this meant family events at the weekend could not take place, or we would have a lot of anger and friction. It can get so tiring and demoralising. However, I realised that I had to be strong and stay consistent if I was to save us both a lot of heartache in the future.

I wish you the best of luck with helping and supporting your son and helping him to become more settled and happy at his school.

I'm a teacher and a mum, so I can see both sides. It must be hard to hear what the teacher genuinely thinks about your son and his behaviour. It must also be hard to see that almost all of the posters think that you are in the wrong for eavesdropping and for your attitude towards ds's behaviour. However, I'm sure she was just venting after a rough day and a tough meeting. The other person knew your son by name -that says a lot in my book.

Other posters have suggested looking at it from the teacher's perspective, but can I suggest trying from the angle of another child in the class? I had a little boy in my class last year (age 6) who shouted/screamed/swore a lot. I regularly had children in tears and upset about being the person shouted/screamed/sworn at. There was one little girl who struggled coming to school because she was so scared and upset by his behaviour. The mum of the little boy nodded her head during all our meetings, but nothing changed. The mum of the little girl sat in tears during our meeting.

Your son is disrupting the learning of the whole class. How would you feel if another child was regularly shouting/swearing at your ds?

Gosh try and focus on the advice posts op.

I have been in a similar situation (behaviour probs not the same you describe)although fully supportive of school and consequences. I was in constant contact with school and tried desperate.y to ensure that we were all on the same page and expectations and consequences were consistent between home and school.

My advice would be to def introduce segmenting of time as suggested earlier. Also, the ABC approach is a must. Antecedent' behaviour and consequence. There is always a reason for a behaviour (antecedent) followed by a behaviour (which is also a form of communication) -and a consequence for the behaviour. Ask the teacher to record triggers/reasons for the behaviour displayed and see if there is a pattern. This makes it easier to reduce/eliminate triggers when you know what they are. Children must be told that the behaviour is unacceptable and that it is the behaviour that you don't like, not the child. Then there must be a consequence for the behaviour and this must be consistently applied.

I also work in education and see the flip side of the coin and it is so hard to manage a class when children are disruptive. I would maybe talk to the teacher about what you witnessed but with the approach of something needs to change and you need to work together to overcome the problems. It isn't a healthy relationship for either party. I would suggest to the teacher to implement the above and for you to follow through at home. Communication with each other is key.