To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

Hi all, just a quick update in case anyone's watching. I had a real heart to heart with DS this morning, and he has agreed that he has been rude. I'm going to ask after him daily and if it's a good day, he'll be allowed his internet time, if not he won't. We'll see how that goes.
I've ordered that explosive child book.

I had a meeting with teacher after school today. I asked what she was doing in class, we talked and she is going to start a daily log book. She was very smiley. I had a quick word alone too and just mentioned that she needs to be more careful with her rants after school as anybody could be listening. She started to panic and apologise, but I just told her to stop and we'd start on a clean page from now on. I don't want it to be a source of tension.

Hopefully things will start to move up.

Anyway I won't be on the thread any more, but thank you for constructive replies.

OP Well done. Sounds a good way to move forward.

good for you OP.

Good luck

You've handled this brilliantly Alarm, wishing you and your DS all the very best!

Wow, Alarmbells that's perfect, how great, well done.

Well done OP but can I just mention one thing?

Instead of asking ds if it's been a good day, ask the teacher. She can give a more honest feedback.

Apart from that very well done to you

Well done op

I second asking the teacher if its been a good day though not your son!!

I agree you handled it brilliantly. Better than I could have done

Are we talking about the same boy in DDs class? Everyday she comes home latest behaviour instalment

Brilliant OP excellent response.

Golden bear I know when we were kids my parents were ashamed of our behaviour if we swore and were aggressive in school. My mum frog marched my brother back to school to apologise to the teacher when she heard that he'd been swearing and aggressive in class! He never did it again. Last time I checked we weren't actually living in the medieval times then

I was trying to make the point that we have lost our way in the UK with what education is all about and the support it needs, not just looking for loop holes or excuses. We were ranked 20th in the OECD last year with many Asian countries outperforming the UK. Question is with all our economic advantages why is this? I'm not suggesting that this issue is the only factor influencing this (under funding and over crowding are also key imho) but I think that the partnership between schools and parents has eroded over the years. In my experience in the more competitive countries education is seen as a privilege and a ticket to a better life so parents are invested in making sure that their kids get the most out of it.

My point was that teachers need the support of parents to make changes to behaviour not excuses. A practical plan on how to move forward with the OP is what is needed. But she must follow through not just look for people or other children to blame.

We all want the best for our kids and for them to have a positive learning experience. Imho the ones that are habitually naughty are taking much needed attention from those that have real issues to deal with such as ASD or specific learning difficulties and need that extra support. Not fair on anyone.

Are you in the habit of eavesdropping?
Why did your son not go back for his book bag that he had forgotten?

Great news Alarm. I think you handled that brilliantly.

Yay, onwards and upwards. I think what you did today will also help your relationship with the teacher too - which can only be a good thing 😊.
Good luck to you.

Handled brilliantly alarm

Now you can build the relationship and both support your DS.

I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses Really?!

Why did your son not go back for his book bag that he had forgotten?

Who cares? Actually it's better that the OP did, rather than have the child hear the teacher ranting.

That is a really good way to deal with it alarm bells. The teacher now knows you are willing to support her and even overlook her overheard ranty moment (great job on making it clear she had been overheard but also in moving on). The teacher needs to believe you are trying, I think.

The daily log will really help as well as you will get the teacher's comments but more importantly you can ask DS about any specific incidents and get his view of things. This is often a skewed view (if my ds is anything to go by) but it will nearly always yields interesting info about how your DS sees things.
.

In my experience it was not worth talking to my ds about generalities (e.g your teacher says you answer back etc in class). We always got much further when dealing with specific incidents (e.g. "so what happened when you got annoyed with xx today then?") as he could then explain what had happened (in his view).

The when you have what he thinks happened you can explain to him how the teacher saw things (why the log is a good idea as you will have the teacher's view). and discuss with him how he could have handled that particular incident better

good luck

One tip us never to ask "Why questions " Just ask for factual information (who was there, what did they say, what did to do?, where did it happen, when etc) You will find out a lot about his thought process like that I promise. Otherwise he will shut down. Wait until he is calm to have the conversation and if closes down leave it but make it clear he will have to answer the questions sometime and make an appointment for when he will have to talk to you.

This is in all in addition to the consequences of course,.

Also don't forget to feed back to the teacher when you implement consequences and any information you think might be useful to her from your converrations with your DS

Good Luck

Op, You are venting on Mumsnet. The teacher vented privately to a colleague. Same thing really. I would let this one go as you have both vented now, but do listen to the honest home truths spoken in most posts. They are said to try and help you see the situation from an outsider's pov and to help.

If you are going to place the blame for your son's behaviour on the teacher and other children in the class (her not "controlling" the other pupils, the other pupils sticking tongues out at your son) you also need to take a long hard look at your son's behaviour too.

There are other ways your son could respond to provocation. He could laugh at it, walk away from it, ignore it, or give a witty response such as "nice tongue, are you really going to put that back in your mouth?". He seems to only know one way to behave if provoked, and this is probably what the teacher finds difficult.

He is a little boy of 8yrs and he needs you to show him behaviour, by what you say and what you do, that will help him cope now and when he is older. What he does not need to see is disrespect for authority. He can decide how he feels about authority for himself when he is older and has left school. For now, he needs firm guidelines on behaviour, an education and also your help to achieve this.

I've read the whole thread and think you've achieved a good all round outcome. Good luck.

Also just to say that eventually DS would sometimes say. Mum can I just have the punishment please, without the "talk" as well :).

It is much harder to be honest about what you have done and face up to the fact that you struggle control your behaviour and try to fix it than to just endure a punishment/consequence. At least DS thought so, but it did work over time. He learnt better skills at dealing with the problems he faces each day without resorting to violence/ shouting/running away etc.

Seems you have taken prompt action and if you and the school can work together it is your son who will benefit most.

There will be no doubt ups and downs, but you are doing the best you can.

Good luck!

Alarm well done. A very adult and excellent result all round. It IS good to vent on Mumsnet sometimes!
I know your son will benefit and wish you all the best moving forwards.

Brilliantly handled OP.

WONDERFUL op, and YES BRILLIANTLY HANDLED.

YOU have dealt with it all beautifully, on wards and up wards - bless your heart, its not easy to hear.