To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

She was kind of in public, though, wasn't she? She was at school. Sure, it wasn't for the parent's ears but the fact is she did hear. The chances of a parent coming back having forgotten something or with something else to add are quite high. If she wanted to have a genuinely private conversation, she should have it in private - i.e. at home, not at work.

As an aside, I've got 2 children at school and mine have had various teachers of varying quality since 2008. Teachers are not Gods. Sometimes, your child doesn't like the teacher, sometimes the teacher doesn't like your child, sometimes you don't like the teacher or the teacher doesn't like you. The ones that haven't gelled with mine or vice versa haven't brought out the best in my children.

The teacher above would be a case in point for me. When OP brought up reasons as to why her child was acting out, the teacher shut down the conversation. She wasn't interested in opening up a proper dialogue and listening to the child's side or the parent's side, she wanted the boy to shut up and behave and the mother to blindly punish something that she didn't have the whole story on. To me, it's very old school and that would have got my back up, too.

Agree with the above posters 100%.

It's not private echt, it is the workplace, private is home or at least out of the workplace.

No. Read OP's OP.

The OP eavesdropped on a conversation.

It's her attitude towards a pupil and his parents, where it's OK to judge the person rather than concentrate on the behaviours. The teacher was venting,as people do. What she would say in public would, I hope be different.

echt read again please.

You can vent as much as you like about the BEHAVIOURS. If you start venting about the person and make judgement about how good or bad they are, then you are lost the high ground and you ARE unprofessional.

Why are so many criticizing the teacher for supposedly not mentioning what OP could do to help? IME this would be unusual, and while none of us were there, I can't help feeling OP's insistence on "not punishing twice" suggests a possibility that some ideas might have been offered (and rejected)

This is what is wrong with the UK education culture imho. I've spent a lot of time in other countries where teachers are highly respected and education is very supportive. Being rude to the teacher or misbehaving in school is considered shameful to the family and is dealt with by the family. The result is the kids learn to value school, understand that their behaviour has consequences and go on to achieve better results.

This 'not punishing at home' is lazy parenting in my view. Also trying to blame everyone else is also a cop out and giving him free licence to behave how he wants with little lasting consequences.

There are loads of private conversations that take place across a variety of workplaces. Teachers are entitled to have those private conversations too to let off steam. They are not robots.

You can vent as much as you like about the BEHAVIOURS. If you start venting about the person and make judgement about how good or bad they are, then you are lost the high ground and you ARE unprofessional

The teacher was in private.

One might consider, and say that so-and-so was an absolute arsehole, but never reveal it any way in one's dealing with the said arsehole on a day-to-day basis.
Indeed it is one's professional duty to do so. This is what I do, and I'm very very good at it.

What I object to is he notion that once a parent like the OP accidentally discovers that a teacher has said what was said, all is lost on the part of the teacher, while teachers can and are be vilified by parents and children and are expected to step up to the plate day after day.

I should point out out that I do expect teachers to get on with it. If only parents such as the OP ( in her opening post, though not later) could do the same..

At least the OP knows now. She is now well aware. Of the utter disdain that the teacher feels for both her and her ds.

I agree with most of the posters who are saying you need to look at your son's behaviour and the swearing issue, however, I think it is out of order for any teacher to refer to a child as a 'little shit' although I can understand the teachers frustration.
Children are naughty for a reason and a teacher should know that. A child is not getting the right help if the teacher is the type of person to label the child a 'shit' even to a colleague.
It is ignorant to do that and it suggests that the teacher directs blame at a child.
The teacher is a trained adult for goodness sake!

Prhaps you could see the teacher again and say you really do want to resolve the issue of your child's behaviour and ask for some advice?

Professionalism is not 2 faced pretence. it's having knowledge and skills ,work habits and high standards, desire and determination to do the best you can,continuing to upgrade and add to skills and knowledge, working with colleagues and stake holders to reach stated goals and to do the job to the very best of your ability and taking pride in doing a job that you beleive is worth doing well.i think,op , that what your son is learning from you is worth much more than what he is learning from this unprofessional teacher.Please trust in yourself and your son and her thru this sit with as little damage to you and your son's self esteem as possible. It took me a long time as parent to realise that some teachers have not earned respect and be willing to admit this to my dcc who suffered in some of their classes.

I imagine we can all agree that the teacher's choice of words was perhaps unfortunate at best. However, no matter how much folk have the vapours over it, in any profession where staff are constantly driven to distraction by the demands and behaviours of others, it's simply going to happen

And I'm told that among medical staff it's even worse ...

get thru this sit

FlyingScotsman
Re "italian
Do you really think it's helpful for a parent to publish a child again when they are back home when they have been punished at school already?"

No I do not. I would not punish a child twice, just as the OP said she would not. A punishment at school might have consequences or repercussions that would affect a child at home as well but I would not punish a child twice.

Re "Don't you think that instead you will foster resentment and/or fear? And that you might very well undermine the trust the child has in you."

Absolutely I agree with you.

Re "Because it might well be that there are some very good reasons for that child to react the way he is, some of which will not be in his remit."

Yes, I 100% agree with you.

You seem to have misunderstood my post and also not read my previous supportive posts to the OP..

The first 10 pages of this thread are peppered with some truly vile and unhelpful comments supporting this foul mouthed teacher, who chose to speak so appalling to a colleague, on school property, moment after the OP left! There are comments suggesting this is perfectly OK and bad mouthing the OP for her lack of 'discipline' her son.

I simply stated that the comment about not punishing twice is what, IMHO has gotten the OP so many nasty comments. NOT that I think she should discipline him again nor that she was wrong to mention it.

Look after your kid and try and address the issues he is having so he has a nicer time at school.
If he is being disruptive though it will be difficult to get sympathy from the teacher - they do have a right to vent and be annoyed. Try and move on from this for your sons sake.
In the end a letter to the head won't change anything and certainly not your sons behaviour.

I do wish people who think it is all so simple had children who are harder to 'manage'. It's great to share plans and ideas but really all kids are different and different things work for different kids. For the OP it is finding what works for her child.

My daughter can be a little shit in class - and I have worked with the teacher to sort it out. It was a new - ish, nervous teacher who was having trouble disciplining the class . My daughter, as well as most of the others, took advantage and behaved badly. Totally unacceptable. Now privately I'm still not altogether happy with the teacher (she is still having discipline problems. She is not suited to this age group and is really struggling with lots of things) but I have made it very clear to my daughter that I back the teacher all the way and that if I get called in again because of her behaviour there will be serious consequences. My daughter will be starting secondary in September and she needs to realise that school is not the place for innapropriate behaviour.

Also, I would be mortified if I overheard that conversation - not because of the teacher's rant but because I would then realise just how bloody awful my child was being. There would be more than a stern talking to happening after that.

I love the post about teaching your child that's life really is about their choices. It's so true. Try to follow that.

I also don't think this Teacher has written off your son - if she had there wouldn't have been yet another meeting about your son's behaviour. She's probably written off your involvement though as you really don't appear to be on her side at all. You don't have to like her to back her up. But you really can't let your 8 year old son continue get away with this dreadful behaviour.

I am baffled that everyone jumps all over the OP about the child swearing and insisting that nasty old xbox live is obviously the culprit. (my children play on the xbox but not on live as they are still not solid with online safety) I heard lots of swearing at school, and that was long before xbox even existed.

But yet... these same people leap to defend the teacher... who was swearing... at the school... where any child that might have been nearby with a parent (perhaps meeting another teacher or if the OP had brought her child in with her to get the backpack).

Maybe the child has heard a few choice words from the teacher. I can't say that it necessarily puts the teacher on a high moral ground. I'm not saying the child should be swearing at school, but maybe the teacher needs to consider the phrase "setting a good example" or even "practise what you preach."

a mother not wanting her son to be called a shit by his teacher or herself be called psycho is not having the vapors. You are demonstrating the same lack of respect that is at the heart of this thread. And saying that it is worse with medical staff ? How does that make this better? And a winking emo? You think this is funny ? And NO it 's not simply going to happen - not in my experience. If you participate in unprofessional slurring and labelling of clients, you will hear it tho.

Why not turn it around if you don't want to be punishing twice. If he's had a great day at school then you've earned 30 mins on the iPad etc. Or what a shame the teacher says you've been swearing today so you've not earned that ipad time. But re what you said about him only being given one warning, he's old enough to know what's acceptable, so he'd only get that in my room too.

Just seen that he struggles with the whole day. Ask for a chart for each lesson, so if he has 3 good lessons he earns X time on the iPad. So any good behaviour is rewarded.

Also, I would be mortified if I overheard that conversation - not because of the teacher's rant but because I would then realise just how bloody awful my child was being. There would be more than a stern talking to happening after that

This

Also I do agree my DS (9) knew some swear words at 8 .. he learnt them on the playground. However he does know not to use them with adults..

Depending on the age of the child, what they had done and the punishment the school gave

I absolutely would punish twice

Luckily its never happened

You are projecting
Focus on your child's poor behaviour
Then I suggest you try teaching for a few weeks