To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

bumbling I agree with you.
I've had issues too, much worse than the OP but in our case, issues were at home and NEVER at school.
I have never managed to have the school stepping up to help even though it's the school environment that created so much stress for him (and he was then blowing up at home). :(

Nope I was told I was an overreacting mum instead...

And that's why I'm very careful about automatically taking the side of the teacher.
I really don't think that the teacher's reaction is appropriate. It could have been if, for example, the OP had never bought a PE kit for the her ds or was always 'forgetting' to sign stuff, have the homework done or whatever. But as far as I can see, nothing has been asked from her apart from 'sorting the behaviour of her ds out' as if the issue was ONLY her problems and that the teacher coouldn't possiblly have any input at all.
In my experience, it's very unlikely that it is just her issue though....

Echt. Two wrongs don't make a right Not sure what your point is. Do explain.

And don't tell me to get a grip, thanks. I did, and you're welcome.

You really don't seem to have grasped the fact that teachers pretend every day of their lives in the classroom at some point. They have to overlook insults from parents and children and get their game face on, pretend it never happened. They don't get to say remove that child from my class because, er.. the relationship has broken down.

So why is it different for the parents, why are their sensibilities so privileged?

Well now you know what she really thinks.... To be honest I'd be upset that my son is obviously "that kid" and looking at what I can do to address that.

As a teacher I may well have reacted like she did, with a friend once safely out of earshot. Some kids are ill disciplined and some parents ineffective. It's frustrating that you can spend all day telling them right from wrong, but when the parents come in every time and undo that.... Well it's annoying and it affects the other 29 kids, all of whom you personally have a duty of care towards too.

Well for a start it's the teachers job to act professionally.

echt, the teachers are employed, paid professionals, the parents are not these things in their child's school setting.

It is shocking that a teacher can refer to children as 'little shits', I wouldn't refer to any child in that way, it is reductive and unhelpful to talk about the child's problems in this way. You couldn't speak about clients and colleagues in other professions in such an open manner, without huge consequences, like being 'fired'. My DH is an Architect and will speak to me about highly irritating, demanding clients that are suing them etc. but that's in the privacy of our home. If he got off the telephone to one of these clients and then complained to his colleague /friends in the open plan office, using expletatives, he would rightly be called in to the Director's office and be told how unprofessional he was being, probably with a warning. It is really worrying that teachers, people who decide and 'choose' to go in to a profession working with 'children', think it's perfectly acceptable to use such disgusting language. My Mother was a teacher and had to deal with lots of challenging children and parents and not once did she refer to these people in such an ignorant way. The disdain some teachers feel for children, makes me wonder why they believed they would be so suitable for a job where they were constantly going to be confronted with the challenges of childhood development! The other thread at the moment about the poor year 7 child that's endured awful treatment from school teachers and school support staff and a number of teachers on this thread, justifying this language in reference to an 8 year old child, highlights the fact that we see children as second class citizens and that they're needs are regularly dismissed and not believed. If there are behavioural problems with the Op's child how is 'not' looking at the problem holistically going to help? The boy on the other thread had been put in isolation for swearing but the poor child had been pushed to his limits. In the Op's case they may be reasons, why aren't they being explored? The teacher may be frustrated but they are an adult and as an adult you do need to exercise self control and lead by example!

That was to echt. But I have no interest in some kind of rude bunfight with someone who can't discuss without telling others to get a grip, tbh.

Well for a start it's the teachers job to act professionally.

Such as? There has been quite difference of opinion on what constitutes professional behaviour on this thread.

Bumbling, excellent post.
And FlyingScotsman, I could have written your post exactly.

That was to echt. But I have no interest in some kind of rude bunfight with someone who can't discuss without telling others to get a grip, tbh

See my post of 11.52. which explains my thinking.

Are you not embarrassed by his behaviour? I'd be mortified if my 8 year old had sworn at anyone and would be on him like a tonne of bricks.

You need to stop the Xbox on line if he isn't mature enough to hear that language but realise that he can't use it and playing unsupervised at 8 years old really isn't appropriate.

He does sound naughty and disruptive.
I imagine the teacher is very frustrated.
Perhaps it's time to start punishing twice, we always have whenever DS was naughty at school.

Not calling kids little shits and singing Psycho music would be a start.

op, you have had a barrage from parents who do not want their dcc'ss learning time disrupted and teachers who do not want their teaching disrupted. Also a few who are willing to consider this sit from your son's side. Did anyone pick up that this ct has labelled op's son to the point that the other teacher knew who she was talking about? she has also labelled the op. So if your son continues in this school, he will be regarded -vely and so will you. I agree with not punishing twice ,op. I also beleive that using a behavioural plan with rewards and consequences is far more effective than yelling at a child 'get out of my classroom'. This is an even more shocking example of this teacher's lack of professionalism. she uses bad language to describe your son after she calls you in to complain about his bad language! Perhaps your son does not respect this teacher as she does not practice what she demands of him . Be careful about jumping on this punish your son bandwagon ,op. Listen to him and talk to him and help him to figure out how not to get in trouble with this teacher. he will meet many others in life who demand compliance and respect but have not earned it.I am a retired teacher who taught cc with behavioural and learning difficulties for many years.

What a ludicrous question, I would imagine that swearing about a pupil in your place of work does not comply with a teacher's professional code of conduct.

The thing is as a teacher, her role is to look at the behaviour of the child, not to put judgement on the child as a person.
By talking lIke this, she HAS made a big sweeping statement about the child as a person which makes it 'unprofessional'.

As A HCP, when I see a patient, I'm here to look at their symptoms, not to judge their behaviour. If a patient tells me he is getting easily angry and throw things around the room at his partner, I'm here to help that person find ways to handle their behaviour, check if they aren't depressed etc... Not judging them as an a**hole who is abusing their partner. I would see any of my colleague thinking like that as unprofessional (let alone saying it!)
In the same way, I do see a teacher speaking in that way as unprofessional. Yes it's normal to be frustrated at the behaviors.. No it's not normal to pass such judgement on the person (be it the OP our her ds)

Directed at echt

I understand to a point about the getting frustrated. I work in a shop and, yes, sometimes there are customers you'd like to swear about but I am sure I'd be hauled into the manager's office if I'd spoken about a customer like that. I a hoping this would apply here. I hope op does complain so she's suitably embarrassed. After all, she can't be talking about a child's bad behaviour then do this.

Not calling kids little shits and singing Psycho music would be a start.

Private conversation.

What a ludicrous question, I would imagine that swearing about a pupil in your place of work does not comply with a teacher's professional code of conduct.

I would imagine that in a place a teacher considered to be private, they could vent.
As this teacher did.

Conveying a generally unprofessional attitude to a child.

Conveying a generally unprofessional attitude to a child.

What you say in private and do in public are quite different things. It's called being professional; concealing the personal and putting the work first.

Sort of Jobs 101. Kind of thing.

A teachers attitude to a child is very very important and should be appropriate in private and in public.

Sort of not being a dick 101. Really.

'Private conversation' but 'in' the workplace and the subject of this 'private' conversation was 'work'. Equally, a private sentiment that is a 'very' worrying when they work with children. If I heard a parent talk with such disdain about their child I would feel sorry for the child to be around such an imaginatively limited adult, that expected them to behave as an adult but a 'teacher', a 'teacher'- they have been trained (?) on child development, it is disgusting and worrying that we are wasting taxes on churning out such rubbish teachers. How do we attract more of the good ones and discourage people like this from entering the profession is the question.

echt it's not wether she used these words poor not that is the issue though.
It's her attitude towards a pupil and his parents, where it's OK to judge the person rather than concentrate on the behaviours.

If she was concentrating on the behaviours, she would have had a very different approach to any meetings with the OP. Starting, for example, with listing what sort of strategies they want to implement and how the OP can help and support that. She could have asked for input about what works at home, if the behaviour is present too etc..
Instead, she has put all the blame on the child and the parent, creating a situation where said parent goes into defensive mode.

I have to say, reading this thread and comparing it to the one running about unacceptable behaviour from a Uni student, the difference on how to deal with the issue is stark.
In one case, it's OK to say the child is a little shit. On the other, you need to ensure that the adult pupil isn't out in a too difficult situation and isn't made to feel bad...
What about using the same technique with the OP's ds than with said Uni student instead?