To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

I'm a teacher and also worked as a support assistant. Members of staff do discuss children but I've never heard anyone using language about a child that is in the op. I am surprised any teachers think it's ok. I worked many times with kids with behavioural problems. It was my job to deal with them as effectively as I could. Calling them names, even in private, would show a lack of understanding of the children and the wider problems that lead to this kind of behaviour.

You need to see the truth, OP, hard though that is for you. Your son behaves like a little shit in school at the moment ... and if you don't want him to grow up to be a little shit, you need to change your behaviour vis-a-vis his school.

Doing the right thing by your child sometimes involves seeming to support others as against the child. You need to support the school and your son's teacher. You're not doing that at present.

It'll be hard, but if you want the best for your child (as of course you do!) you need to change ... for his sake, though he won't understand yet.

I agree with op, that language used against a young child is totally unprofessional and unacceptable, they are not at home or outside school, but on school grounds, what if the headteacher or someone else walked by. If op was able to hear it, then somebody else could. I used to work with adults with learning disabilities, some were really challenging, but I would never refer to them in that language. How can a teacher teacher op son, and remain professional, when she refers to him as a little S*T, it will come out in her attitude towards him, and the way she is towards him. If she thinks he's like that and treats him as such, then its a self fulfilling profacy.

My ds 4 and at nusery, she has hit children in the past, they have dealt with it, I told them that I also punished at home, and the teacher told me not to do that, that he has already been punished at school and to work with his behaviour at home. Long term, you do have to address this behaviour, are the school not working with you to help you with this? Or warn your ds, that if you hear that he has been mean etc, there will be sanctions at home, like removing PS or Kindle or something like that.

emilybohemia You've evidently not been in many staff rooms then! It's very common, both in private and state, especially with the particularly wearing students.

OP, I had a problem Year 7 child one, and his Mum didn't know what to do. He liked to play football once a week, and the deal was he could only do do if his behaviour in my lessons was acceptable. He missed one session at the start of term, and then behaved thereafter, once he had clocked that his Mum and I were in communication; and that she followed through on the sanction.

Do you never get to the end of the rope with your own children? Imagine being a primary school teacher. You have a child in the class who is constantly talking back, being rude, being disruptive, etc. You have asked for parental support, but the parent 'doesn't believe in punishing bad behaviour twice'. You are faced with the knowledge that for the next twelve weeks you are going to have to deal with this behaviour for 6 hours per day, 5 days per week, and you can't do anything about it.

I'm a nurse. I sometimes have challenging patients and a twelve hour shift is long. But I know that I have a day off the next day, or I can ask for a change of patient, or I can ask a colleague to step in and deal with them while I take a breather....teachers can't do any of that.

How you feeling today Alarm? Hope all is well.

I think alot of people have been very judgemental. Teachers aren't perfect and this teacher has overstepped the line. I'm a senior manager in HR in the care sector and I can assure you if any member of staff was heard talking about a service user like this there would be a disciplinary. She might feel it, she shouldn't say it. Another child might hear her talking like this which would be very unacceptable.

The mother had a perfectly good reason for turning back, her son needed his bookbag, talking about her sneaking about eavesdropping is way over the top.

OP I understand about not punishing twice but what about rewards? Small treat if at the end of the week the teacher says no incidents?

Have you had this problem with previous teachers or is it a personality clash with her specifically? I have one son who was very popular with his reception teacher but his teacher the following year clearly didn't like him or me. I have no idea why and she didn't do anything too out of order, he was bright and he never did anything she could really complain about but if the class was noisy it was him who was shouted at, he never got "picked" for anything even if it was something that he was particularly good at e.g. he was the top reader in his class but never chosen to read at assembly, he was musical but never picked to perform in anything. This wasn't a school ethos as it wasn't like that with any other teacher. When I needed to speak to her about something like a medical appointment she was barely civil. Unfortunately there was only one class per year so no chance of moving him but would there be for your son?

I do think it would be a good idea to make an appointment to speak to her and clear the air.

OP you know I really think that phrase 'don't believe in punishing bad behaviour twice'. is these one that has got you all these negative comments!

But of course most people would not expect to be punished twice either!

OMG that is totally appalling and scary to think about the teachers feeling like that about your child and you.

Really shocked at the responses.

I would be asking for a transfer to a different classes on grounds of irretrievable breakdown of relationship

Err *class

If this boy is having these behavioural problems, does he have an Individual Behaviour Plan? Some sort of longer term plan written up with goals, so that the teacher and parent are on the same page with how it's going to be handled? I've not heard mention of this by the OP - only "child misbehaves, teacher calls in parent."

I'm also of the opinion that bollocking a child again and setting up punishment at home for something that has already been dealt with at school is not necessarily helpful, in some circumstances. Also that the consequences should be something immediate and not going into the next day, otherwise the child has no incentive to behave the next day (why bother - I'm screwed for the rest of the week, right?)

The teacher has displayed some unprofessional behaviour, IMO. Would she like the parent to discuss her in those same terms? Likely not. So perhaps she can keep those kinds of discussions where it is certain she will not be overheard by another child or parent.

And yes, the other children constantly poking and prodding the OP's child is bullying. The teacher is clearly aware that this is a problem, and she should be dealing with it. Yes, the OP's son needs to change his reactions to it, however, rather than bollocking him why isn't there some type of plan set in place - giving him options of better ways to handle it, encouragement, visual reminders if need be, and then rewards for making good choices?

And children who are deliberately winding him up should be having immediate consequence as well. Yes, the OP's son will need to learn to deal with annoying people that bug him as he gets older, but he's not older now - and right now he needs support to learn how to react in a more appropriate manner. And those other children also need support to learn that just because you CAN wind someone up, that doesn't mean it's okay - so they need support to learn how to behave in a more appropriate manner as well.

Of course, the OP can and should discuss behavioural issues with her son. The best approach IMO is for it to be dealt with in school during the day and the OP follow it up with a discussion about what happened and what choices he can make next time that will be appropriate - and then when he does that, he can get some type of small extra privilege at home for making good choices. Reinforce the positive behaviour.

Oh, and we didn't have xbox live when I was a child, but I still heard LOADS of swearing from other kids at school. We don't live in a vacuum. All bad language is not picked up on xbox live.

Fanjo and others - there may not be another class to move to if it is a small school with only one class per year.

I think that another meeting with the teacher is required. I would involve the SENCO too, as suggested by another poster, both to have a new pair of eyes and to temper the teacher's attitude.
That teacher might well be just extremely frustrated by the OP or her ds. She might also be quite fixated on that child, forgetting how other children have a part to play in the different incidents.

You do need to talk about strategies implemented in school to handle his behaviour. What are the consequences for his actions. Is that working? (I assume not if the problems are still there). What else can be done? I'm not keen in coming with a proposal for the teacher to do. In my experience, that doesn't go down well and teachers find that you are overstepping the mark (and that you can't possibly know better than them what will work within the classroom setting, which can be true). But telling them what you know is working at home can make a big difference.

What sort of problems are they seeing at school? Do you see them at home? Be honest. It might not come out as obvious as it is at school, just because the environment is different. But he might struggle to sit still at the table or he might swear sometimes at home too or slam the door when he is angry. Or you might have a different expectation (eg talking back or interrupting will be, IMO, much harder to spot when there is just the two of you)

You are mentioning he is finding school hard. Why is that? Is that on social/friendship level? Do you think he would be better away from some children that might well know how to punish his buttons and will take great pleasure in doing so? Is he somehow struggling in some areas, maths, reading? Is he anxious etc...
Behaviour like this can be just a 'non very well parented' child. It could also be the symptoms of other issues that need to be addressed first.

This is not going to be solved unless you are working together with the school.
I do not believe in punishing twice, especially as you will only get second hand information on what has happened.
I do believe in explaining and pointing out behaviours that are unhelpful when you see them as well as teaching the child ways of coping (eg what can he do when he is getting angry or another child is annoying him etc...). Talk strategies, maybe do a bit of role play too. If he has friends around or cousins etc... Look at how he is behaving and use that as a talking point to see what he can do better.

italian
Do you really think it's hel;Paul for a parent to publish a child again when they are back home when they have been poounbished at school already?
Don't you think that instead you will foster resentment and/or fear? And that yoou might very well undermine the trust the child has in you.
Because it migt well be that there are some very good reasons for tht child to react the way he is, some of which will not be in his remit.

I don't see how it can be solved. The teacher might toe the line and pretend to act more reasonably but the OP now knows what she thinks.

nogrip DS has told a boy at school to fuck off before, I have no idea where he heard it, I rarely swear in RL just on here, neither does DH.

I don't see how it can be solved. The teacher might toe the line and pretend to act more reasonably but the OP now knows what she thinks.

Get a grip. Teachers deal with this day day out when parents email them/complain to HT saying they're useless/bullies and pupils call them bitch/stupid.

The parents/pupils toe the line/pretend to act more reasonably. Why should it be different for the teachers?

*DS 4

Echt. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And don't tell me to get a grip, thanks.

I would feel the relationship has irretrievably broken down in this instance.

This is excellent advice from above:

*He needs to know that you don't give a monkey's about how the other children behave, or how many swearers or boasters there are in the class: your job is to parent him and teach him what is good for him.

My son, towards the end of secondary, has got to the age where children around him take drugs, he goes to parties and the parents serve alcohol, other children his age are impregnating their girlfriends. The only way he will stay safe is by having internalised the idea that he is responsible for his actions. And that started early; it started when he complained as a 4yo that "James was doing it too" and found out that I am not in the slightest bit interested in what James does because I am not James' mother and teaching James to behave is not my job.*

Alarm, don't be down. All of us, as parents, need to re-think our strategies from time to time.

You probably don't like the teacher much at all at the moment, however, do you best to work with her as best you can.

I don't punish twice for stuff either, but what I do have in place is a home/school agreement. Dd is stubborn and refusing 5 work lately, so we have a deal, if she has a good day at school, she gets her tablet when she gets home. Bad day = no tablet.

Simple, but effective!

I don't know how many people on this thread have actually ever had a child who behaves like this but I have. DS is now 11 years old and behaves much much better but if you reviewed his home school communication book from the age of 5 to about 9 years old most people on here would have been horrified. He was violent so his behaviour at school was really way worse than that of the OP. I am just so so grateful that the teachers at his school did not give up on him. In many places he would have been excluded. At home he did not exhibit this aggressive behaviour. Now is even complimented on how polite he is and I have had many comments on how he has really changed from staff, other children and other parents.

I wish I could give you a magic button to fix everything but we just about made it through and the only advice I can give you is

Never never never give up on your child. This teacher has already done this. She has given up on him and is placing the blame fairly on your shoulder as the parent. Something many of the posters on this thread are doing. This is sheer laziness on the part of the teacher. She wants a quiet life and to just get on with teaching her subject. Many people will say who can blame her and part of me agrees but I also truly believe that the vast majority of children do well if they can. If they behave very badly it is because they have difficulty controlling their behaviour and need to be helped to do that. This part of what some children need to learn in school

Your son's behaviour needs the parent and school to work together but as the main bad behaviour is in school it is up to the school to have a plan to address it. The plan needs to not just involve consequences for behaviour but also to include working to see if some of the triggers for the behaviour can be avoided

They need to explain to you what they will be doing and for you to support that at home in whatever they ask you to. BUT they need to clearly outline what they want you to do to support their plan. Not just throw their hands up and look at you and say "you sort it out"

The school also should sit down with your son (preferably someone he trusts and definitely not the complaining teacher) to just listen to him and to see what his side of the story is. He needs to be listened to even if what he says is seen as "making excuses". It may not just be about the other children winding him up but also about how easy he finds the lesson etc or he may be having social probelms outside of the class. He may even have some suggestions for how he might be able to behave better.

Or said more succinctly by one poster