We pay £250 more a month in CSA payments than we have to

[MrSnow]

Long story short, I had a son after an extremely short relationship 16 years ago. I had an average paid job but under the old rules of the CSA I paid 40% of my wages, around £400 quid a month. 12.5 Years later I get married to a woman I love and we have an amazing little boy. We also brought a house together. I didn't tell the CSA any of this and carried on paying the £400.00 for around 2 years. The CSA then contacted me and asked for a full review of my circumstances, as a result they are now only taking £150.00 a month. I contacted my son's mother and we agreed to keep paying her what we were paying her as it was only fair on my son. However, a year down the line we could really do with extra cash. AIBU to ask the mother of my son to take a deduction of £150pm so we'd only be paying her £250.00pm a month? My son is 16 next month and applying for colleges. I don't have any contact other than the occasional phone, text, Christmas and birthday presents. Not that it really matters but she owns a house that she rents out, rents a house herself and has a decent convertible car. My Son has everything, and more, that he could wish for in terms of material goods. What I'm afraid of is if she kicks off?? I don't want to cause any stress or concern for my boy.

Now that isn't fair.

Just because he is the nrp everyone has jumped on and said he isn't making an effort.

You don't know the full circumstances and until you do, you ought not to post saying he is a shit dad

I don't. My husband has spent 3 years in court fighting for his child's right to have a relationship with him. It is soul destroying, exhausting, all consuming. His ex is also "a head case". That's no excuse to stop trying. I'm sorry but it isn't. I know someone in your position - perhaps you're even the man I know - and I honestly can't get my head around it. The truth must really hurt but you need to accept responsibility here because you have been partly to blame and your son will need to see you accept that responsibility. It absolutely will not be as straight forward as telling him your side of the story because it doesn't look like you're seeing all angles.

That's what the court system is there for to enabled fathers or mothers access and put into writing a court order. If it's broken it's taken back to court.

Why don't you give her the CSA figure and give the rest directly to your son?

No one would stop me seeing my child and I don't understand why you wouldn't pursue access through the courts. You write that you have an amazing little boy with your current wife. What about the amazing boy your had with your ex?
You may be giving more money than required (guilt?) but no amount of money makes up for absenting yourself from your son's life, whatever the circumstances and however you view your ex.
I wouldn't bother berating your first son's mother if he does decide to contact you... after all, she's physically been there the whole time you haven't. She's raised him with all that entails; you've put your hand in your pocket.

16 is old enough to have that contact and conversation. But it's not old enough to be as adult, nuanced and forgiving towards you as I suspect you might think he should be. "Old enough to understand" often means "old enough to accept my story and put aside all the pain they've suffered, for my benefit".

You appear to have put more effort into getting advice on how to pay less maintenance than how to build a relationship with your son, or at least demonstrate to him that you tried everything you could, even if his mother thwarted all your attempts. And you did try everything, didn't you?

Whatever you feel about your ex, she was clearly good enough for something and you're the only biological father that blameless kid has. You really never thought to buy him a phone and contact him directly?

my "ex" is a certifiable, grade one, 5 star, headcase."

If that's the case you should have been more careful with your semen.

Pearlylum, would you say the equivalent to women with children fathered by arseholes?

Augusta some of us on MN have really unfortunately-behaved exes (criminality, terrible parenting, personality disorders, addiction, abuse etc) and we still don't use language like "certifiable, grade one, 5 star, headcase." about them because it would be completely inappropriate and disrespectful to talk about the other parent of our DC like that OR to talk about MH like that.

Whoa, do I have this right? You didn't even attempt to take it to court?

If your son feels rejected and abandoned, being able to present him with documents that prove you tried all avenues to reach him would make an enormous difference to your chances of building bridges later. Simply telling him it's because his mother is a fruitloop and his pain is simply because he's not old enough to understand?

He's the only innocent party here, you know. The only one who didn't make choices that led to his situation.

"Old enough to understand" often means "old enough to accept my story and put aside all the pain they've suffered, for my benefit".

Exactly. Not sure that will ever happen. Which is why I questioned why he was not old enough to understand now.

You are reasonable to reduce it. Tell her about the changes, rather than asking, as you are paying, and intending to continue to pay, over the CSA limit.

Access is a whole different matter and shouldn't get mixed up with this.

my "ex" is a certifiable, grade one, 5 star, headcase."

More to the point, why did you let your son stay with her, if that was the case?

I too picked you that op stated had amazing son with his wife which made me think he didn't bother to pursue contact with his first born. Regardless if the relationship was short lived his DS should of been a priority well before his DS2 was on the scene.

I love how everyone is assuming he hasn't been through the courts. He may well have gone to the courts for access and been denied. Aside from the OP, none of us know the full story. The OP hasn't told us whether or not he went through the courts, and having watched my cousin go through a similarly distressing ordeal trying to get access to his daughter, I can well believe someone like the OP could go to court and still be denied access. If he hasn't been through the courts then I would hope he has a VERY good reason why not.

There's no excuse for not trying to maintain contact there's solicitors, mediation, the courts. You could of easily got a court order during that time that she has to adheret to

Stardust, you really have no idea what you're talking about. The plain fact of the matter is that if a parent is determined to thwart contact, there is virtually nothing that can be done through legal channels to prevent it. The resident parent has the opportunity every single day to bring up their child in the belief that the NRP is evil beyond belief, can lie in court, can string out court proceedings so that they become prohibitively expensive, can find convenient illnesses and alternative engagements to thwart contact, and can simply refuse to obey court orders. Sure, the court can look at imprisonment for contempt of court, but having the RP imprisoned isn't exactly going to predispose the child in the NRP's favour.

I have no idea whether any or all of that applies in OP's case, but the suggestion that it is "easy" to get contact against an ultra-determined RP is naive in the extreme.

Just5minswithDacre who upset you in your life. The man is asking for advice no need to be so bloody rude. You don't know his ex she may be a man hater there's a few of them around isn't there?

The CSA can only take 40% when you have arrears and that 40% is removing arrears.

YWNBU to discuss with your childs mother the possibility of reducing what you pay, if all arrears are now clear.

Ywbu to just do it. You made a private arangement you should stick to it until such time as you discus reduction.

Sure, Just5minutes, some of use don't use that language. But you don't have to look far on the Relationships and AIBU boards to find the equivalent being used time after time. Do you tell people off who use terms like "cunt", "cocklodger", "twat", "wanker", or arsehole in respect of their partners?

My eldest a dad doesn't have any contact - his choice - tbh the money is the least you can do and weather she "needs" it or not is none of your bloody business tbh.

I think that in principle reducing it when he is 16 is fine where you are still paying a reasonable amount. He can always get a part time job if he needs extra money. Similarly, your ex could start charging him towards board (out of his part time job) if she really needs the money.

£150 is quite a big drop though. Have you thought about whether reducing it by, say, £100 a month from age 16-18 would be easier for them both to manage? Your son could easily earn the equivalent of £100 a month part time or in his holidays and it seems to me to be a reasonable amount to expect him to contribute while he is at college (assuming that there is actually a need for him to contribute that amount). I would also tell your son directly that he can always approach you if he is struggling and needs more financial assistance for his studies.

Some disgusting responses to the OP on here!

I don't think anyone supposes it is necessarily easy to gain access, but that the NRP should certainly try everything possible... and that with proof of court action, the chances of building a relationship with the first son are increased. I'm not wholly clear if the OP has tried getting access via the courts, but if not, then that does colour things somewhat.

I know some people are pointing out it's a maintenance question, not an access one, but that's rather the point. Has the OP put as much effort into trying to gain access to his son as he is now in trying to reduce maintenance for him?

And if the ex is such a nutjob, is he concerned for his child's safety?

"my "ex" is a certifiable, grade one, 5 star, headcase."

If that's the case you should have been more careful with your semen.

Hmmm. Try telling a woman she should have kept her legs shut when she calls her ex the same thing or similar. Actually, you probably wouldn't.

"my "ex" is a certifiable, grade one, 5 star, headcase."

If that's the case you should have been more careful with your semen.

^That, with bells on ^

Having said that, if "she is a a certifiable, grade one, 5 star, headcase" how is it you thought she was good enough to abandon your child with??? Good on you on paying a good maintenance, it would have been far more expensive to hire a nanny or pay for a boarding school to raise him during your absence. hmm