...to want a say in how much we give step children for uni?

[GinnyMcGinFace]

My husband and I have been together for ten years and have two sons. He also has two children from his previous marriage. His ex wife clearly hired a highwayman for a divorce lawyer because we have paid, religiously, £1200 a month for the children, plus half of uniforms, school trips etc. for years. She also got £250k in cash from the divorce and he got to keep the dog. Anyway, whilst the divorce agreement appears ridiculous to me, it was signed, sealed and delivered before I was on the scene so I've never really said much about it. However, the agreement is clear that it covers only until the children are 18-step daughter is now 20 and step son is 18. Both want to go to uni this year and have asked us-well, their dad actually-for financial support. He said of course we will support them, but it's a conversation we need to have altogether. His ex wife has lost her shit and says it's nothing to do with me and they aren't my children so I shouldn't be involved in what she called 'negotatiations'. I feel-as does my husband to be fair to him-that as this now sits outside of their maintenance agreement, the request is coming from our joint income and therefore I should be involved in making the decision about how much we can afford. My husband has made the point that whatever we agree for the older children we have to be able to offer the younger ones and my step daughter (I suspect repeating her mother) has said that her and her 'full' brother-her words-should be the priority.

I've always got on well with my step children and they adore their little brothers. They have become typical teenagers in that they only get in touch with their dad nowadays when they want something but he is not always that great at calling/texting them either.

Is it my business? Am I just an evil step mother bitch??

You want students to work full time, on minimum wage ON TOP of their studies, in order to earn a few hundred pounds a year? How in any way is that better than the current system of paying it back when you are earning over a certain threshold? What would these poor students live on after paying all their money to the university?

Quite! Sounds utterly bizarre.

When my kids went to uni we told them what we were giving them, I don't understand the negotiations. If we couldn't afford anymore or weren't prepared to pay for the dearest halls that was our decision not theirs as it was our money. If they wanted more then they worked for it.

Ummm clearly my example wasn't understood. Today's students are all on the hook for £9k a year of tuition. The vast majority of students pay at least part of this back because they will earn over the threshold (and I fully expect this threshold system to be removed). The payment is a hindrance (it's a barrier to saving for pension/house deposit and students who want to do a masters). Friends who graduated and didn't have well paid jobs after graduation are starting to earn over the threshold now. So they are 35 and paying off student loans when they should be using that money to save for their retirement or towards a deposit to buy a home.

If wages, (up to the total tuition fee due per year) earned by a student while a student, were paid directly to the university instead of having income taxes taken out of it and cash paid to the student who then pays their living costs and tuition, it would really help cut down on the number of students who graduate with huge amounts of debt. I work with recent graduates who are over the threshold and have £60k of debt to repay. It's a huge burden on them and I think this debt creates many more inequalities in our society than education closes. At least with my scheme those who are working while studying, no matter what they earn or hours they work, graduate with a lower amount of debt.

Don't forget these students are paying the tuition either from a loan or cash. I think if a student is willing to work while studying the system should help them and not tax them.

I do also think the system here in the US and Canada where colleges have evening classes is a great idea. My degree course has changed beyond recognition and many courses are completed online. Part of the reason for this is that so many students are working a lot of hours during term time to afford the cost of attending.

Reducing degree courses to two years rather than three with about 11 months a year off would also reduce student debt....

I thought that might happen with degrees from former Polytechs after full fees got brought in, but it would mean a cultural shift in the UK for how we, and our children view university.

From bitter experience of my two that have gone I know that many, many of our young adults are there for at least the first year to "party", and the universities play to this (even Oxford and Cambridge formals have their drinking games and rituals).

I was told by one DC that essentially the first term was an extension of the girls holiday to Magaluf, and that it was only when people started to run out of money sooner second term that it calmed down to one or two nights out a week and house parties at weekends.

lurked my course at a redbrick has changed beyond recognition. More than 50% of the modules are completed online with tutorials replaced with online discussion and assignments uploaded. I spoke to a recent grad and they told me they had all face to face 'stuff' one day a week so he worked 4 days a week and studied evenings and over the weekend.

Yanbu to want an input. Tell them to apply for student loans like everyone else and you will fund half the shortfall. I do get the comments about ensuite rooms and stuff but it is a different sacrifice now. My 21 year old Dd graduates this summer and will be making student loan repayments for 30 years. I can't see that it will ever be paid off, given the rate of interest and the repayment terms. And she will probably have to work until she is 75. The don't have it better, they have it different.

I was told by one DC that essentially the first term was an extension of the girls holiday to Magaluf, and that it was only when people started to run out of money sooner second term that it calmed down to one or two nights out a week and house parties at weekends.

Really? I'm surprised parents sign up for subbing this tbh. I wouldn't. UK university is off the cards for both of mine and this (along with the cost) is one of the reasons.

Lots of parents are, DD was at a high ranking Russel Group uni and this was true there.

DS was at Oxford, and even with the shorter terms and academic competitiveness the first term was very like this.

Not to derail the thread, but I still go back to a previous point that you've got to be very careful with students not to fund a lifestyle that they wouldn't be able to afford on professional starting salaries. Colleagues who I've worked with have been bitterly disappointed that life in work didn't get them the same lifestyle their parents had funded at uni.

So for example, an NQT a couple of years ago had her rent paid, took the basic loan and got £500 a month from her parents. Now if we think that the loan paid for food, bills and travel she had £500 a month just for "pin" money. She found living on an NQT salary very difficult.

i have not read whole thread but want to say that i always had a part time job, all the way through my medical degree.
It can be done ...i wanted a better lifestyle ( shoe habit ! ) than the grant and my parents top up would provide so i worked for it .

It is not unreasonable for you and DH to discuss with his daughters how 'they' are going to fund uni so you get an idea of their expectations first. I would urge some kind of joint family discussion including their mother, so yo don't all get played off against each other or there is chinese whisper affect over who said or promised what.

Can you organise a meeting with the girls, their mother and you two and get a plan agreed ?

DS is in classes 4 days out of 5. Then he is in the library. Once freshers fortnight was over he was expected to knuckle down - he has found the workload to be full time. Not all university experiences are about the party lifestyle. Although obviously there is a fair bit of socialising.

That said, I think it would be much better to have shorter holidays and do a degree over 2 years rather than 3, where possible, which would massively reduce housing costs.

I think most have to stay at home tbh .... The student digs I calculated to be £130 a week where DD1 wants to study, for basically a room. I don't pay that for a three bedroomed house

It depends what kind of course you do tbf. In the 2nd year DS had lectures and tutorials but far less than year 1. They were expected to do a lot of independent study, I think it is the same for many courses.

Totally agree about not overfunding. Many graduate and have a rude awakening or parents continue funding. It's why I think having a conversation about their career plans is extremely important.

Hello Gin. You sound completely reasonable. It is 'entitled' of your skids not to acknowledge your contribution to gifts etc but also easy to see how they may feel that its their dad not you who has a moral duty to contribute.

Suggestion
Don't look at or ask how much you can or should contribute. Instead look at how much they will need on top of their student loan and then work out between you, their mother and themselves how that will be shared between you all. (e.g. halves with their mum or thirds with you, their mum and a part time job).

As a mum of a new RG uni entrant in a northern city on the highest level of loan/ grant contribution. I can confirm that the amount of loan/grant he recieves is less than his hall fees. Without parental contribution he would not manage, like the vast majority of students. Here's a discussion about costs to give you an idea what parents are forking out.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/2627525-How-much-money-do-students-need

You can't know yet how much anything will cost because presumably they haven't got accommodation offers yet. Of course, one of your four may end up somewhere more expensive or not go to uni at all. So you then tot up how much you spend on that dc and for the others you put the difference they didn't get into a savings account or gift in kind, e.g. a car or help with deposit.

I have to agree with granny
We do far more for our grown up offspring than ever before, and people wonder why they are still at home at 30+

I always find these threads fascinating and wonder how people manage who haven't got parents to fund their education.

Oh yes, they get jobs and learn to stand on their own two feet.
Most courses will allow pt work especially weekend.
Then there are the holidays, it isn't a shock that they are going to uni. They could work from gaining A level results to starting at uni. This is a huge amount of time to save up.
They don't need every gadget going, and can cut back on none essentials, saving for the extra they will need on top of their loan entitlement.

My ds1 had thousands saved for uni and paid his own fees too. It was before they went up to 9k though, but were still 6k.
he never asked us for a penny and started work at 16 in order to fund himself.
He didn't spend a penny he didn't have to because it was important to him.

How much do you earn?

How much does who earn Peaches? Me?

Thank you so much for all the replies, I really do appreciate it all! We know that loans and so on won't cover their costs-awaiting their research on this-and, as I've said, we have no issues at all supporting them. My husband has spoken to them today about not ignoring me and they seemed quite receptive to be fair to them. I think maybe they were just a bit oblivious but time will tell. I think the previous poster who said perhaps they see it as his duty not mine may be right; my step son said they don't ask me because it's not fair as they aren't my children. My husband said that it was lovely of them to not want to burden me buy explained our joint finances, that I love them and that also that means that when they do receive things it is from both of us. He also gave them examples of times we have given them money or whatever when he had to be convinced (by me!) because he wouldn't have-that seemed to bring them some awareness.

From the rough estimates/calculations/licking finger and hold it in the wind, we are thinking that £150 per month is a start. I also want to send them some healthy food in a delivery every couple of weeks but my husband thinks they should sort food themselves. I know he is right but I have visions of scurvy ridden stepchildren!!

I agree it's very important not to over fund. It also depends on the course I think, whether you could combine study easily, and work. I've known several do that but work can impact on the study badly I think if you aren't careful.

There is also the issue of working versus unpaid internships.

Lovely Ginny, they have a mother too who can top up food etc. You and your h have paid well over the odds for a very long time. £150 per month is a good starting point, they can get jobs and raise their own money. They have the summer to get jobs and save up too. If their mother thinks that's too little, that's her look out. She can up the amount she puts in and scupper the life lesson they clearly need.

I understand what your h said about not asking you directly, but the email you sent them together was the perfect opportunity to reply to you both. They didn't, they snubbed you again. Basically they are now only saying what they think they need to say to get money. You know their true feelings, that won't have changed.

Bottom line... It's not compulsory to go to uni, but making it too easy for them won't help them learn what life is and what effort they need to put in.

Sounds a good amount! Depending on the course there may be costs associated with it...nursing students often run cars, because if the proximity to placements and working odd hours when public transport is not available.

Sometimes there are conferences to attend to help your career, field trips.

I think a good work ethic will help them whatever they decide to do.

Yes, one of them will certainly need a car to get to placements. My husband and I have just had that chat and once they've come back to us we are thinking instead of offering the money, to fund the car for that child, perhaps with a PCP (with a black box!!) I worry terribly that if they do run out of money (in the pub) that the first thing to be compromised will be car upkeep. I get that they have to learn lessons like that but i would rather that didn't learn that lesson by totalling themselves in a car they haven't serviced...any thoughts? Too much? It would be the smallest and cheapest on the market I hasten to add but would replace the rust bucket currently being driven. It would mean no Contribution to anything else though....

Sometimes with certain car makes you can get servicing built in. I know my sd has a package with it all in.

I paid £600 for my car. It's a Renault estate and it's about 6 years old. I would go with something like this. This car was so cheap compared to us renting one when visiting family and my dad has been using it because it's so cheap to run.

I would not pay for a new car but I would consider paying towards the insurance so they have proper coverage. It is not cheap when you are a young driver living in a student area.