...to want a say in how much we give step children for uni?

[GinnyMcGinFace]

My husband and I have been together for ten years and have two sons. He also has two children from his previous marriage. His ex wife clearly hired a highwayman for a divorce lawyer because we have paid, religiously, £1200 a month for the children, plus half of uniforms, school trips etc. for years. She also got £250k in cash from the divorce and he got to keep the dog. Anyway, whilst the divorce agreement appears ridiculous to me, it was signed, sealed and delivered before I was on the scene so I've never really said much about it. However, the agreement is clear that it covers only until the children are 18-step daughter is now 20 and step son is 18. Both want to go to uni this year and have asked us-well, their dad actually-for financial support. He said of course we will support them, but it's a conversation we need to have altogether. His ex wife has lost her shit and says it's nothing to do with me and they aren't my children so I shouldn't be involved in what she called 'negotatiations'. I feel-as does my husband to be fair to him-that as this now sits outside of their maintenance agreement, the request is coming from our joint income and therefore I should be involved in making the decision about how much we can afford. My husband has made the point that whatever we agree for the older children we have to be able to offer the younger ones and my step daughter (I suspect repeating her mother) has said that her and her 'full' brother-her words-should be the priority.

I've always got on well with my step children and they adore their little brothers. They have become typical teenagers in that they only get in touch with their dad nowadays when they want something but he is not always that great at calling/texting them either.

Is it my business? Am I just an evil step mother bitch??

It's all just such vile characters flaws, he did this she did that so I'm not paying for this that and the other. Revolting all round, what has become of you

My mother did the same thing when I was younger

I believed what she said and took her side thinking my dad had been horrible. It was only years later I found out that money that went to her to support me at uni didn't get passed on. Lots of other things came out too.

It has definitely had an impact our relationship. I still to this day question the validity of what she says which is sad.

Did everyone miss the part where the ex left her husband for another man??

So what ? We have no fault divorce in this country. You don't get penalised no matter what the reason although no doubt some would have her burnt at the stake

That's not the point I'm making. The point is there was an element of choice to leave this relationship and go out on her own. Not being abandoned high and dry to raise the kids on her own. That choice involved weighing up financial impact and implications on career.

I do think single parents have it tough. I'm not bitter about what my mum did. I see it as someone who was trying to keep her head above water and do the best she could alone. What I feel aggrieved about are the lies and trying to wreck my relationship with my dad. I can truly empathise with your DSC ginny and what they are feeling right now.

Ginny sorry to butt in here - don't have kids, but how do you know the step daughter said that? Did the mother tell you? It seems like it could have been exaggerated by her, as I can't imagine a 20-year-old being that immature. Can you confirm that she said that and it's not ex wife putting words in her mouth?

Whoa, this all kicked off didn't it?

Ok. Cannot, there is so much of what you've said is completely right. New cars on 0% finance-totally sensible. Having handymen in to do jobs that you can't do, again, completely necessary-although my husband is always happy to do things like fix dripping taps or install white goods for her when he's home-but it's all a fair point. I'm pretty sure her income isn't 'guessed' as it's her own figure and you're also correct that as a mother I have never been single so perhaps don't understand the struggle of bringing up children with one wage.

I also must defend my husband's ex wife on one count and that is the end of the marriage itself. She acted appallingly, the way she behaved was abhorrent. However, being married to the MOD is a pig sometimes. My parents were both in the navy and therefore I am sort of brainwashed into it being normal but I completely respect her reasons for not being able to hack it, just not the way she went about ending things.

However, I'm afraid none of this is the point. The original reason for my thread was because she refused, point blank, for me to be involved in discussions about how much of our family's money she felt should be given to her children to support them through university. She has described me as 'wet', 'sappy', 'insignificant' and my husband's 'second choice of wife.' She has encouraged an attitude in her children that their half brothers, their own flesh and blood, are not their family and are less important than they are. She has lied-gargantuan, repeated, black lies-to make it look as though we have not provided for her children. She has manipulated and influenced those poor kids into feeling that their own father did not love them as much as their brothers and she has done that with the sole purpose of trying to make sure that her relationship with them remains strong to the detriment of their relationship with their father and to creat a situation in which they felt justified in asking for more money than their 'less important' brothers. She saw fit to try and dictate how my husband and I spend our money yet then, in the next breath, can say that she will not be supporting them herself. You may well scoff at the 'two salaries-greedy cow!' comment and agree with the sentiment but yes, we have also had two salaries (and she has had the equivalent) but we have used that to save for them. If she has chosen not to do that-and it IS a choice-that's absolutely her prerogative, but what is not her right is to try to justify that choice by being untruthful about us. At that point, yes, I feel I have the right to judge her for that behaviour. Not for her holidays, or her cars, or her abundance of Christian Dior but for her bare faced and nasty deceit which has left two children completely devastated.

I still think the op is being very calm and measured.

She sounds awful OP.

It's irrelevant to my feelings about whether I'd want to involve you in the discussions though.

I like to think that when the time comes, I could manage sitting down with my XH and his GF to discuss university costs.

BUT... she is my child, not his GF's.
You have to believe me that I am behind the scenes super supportive of the step relationship. Because it's best for my child. I've nothing personally against her stepmother. But... It is MY child, not hers. I don't want her included. I think she absolutely has a right to a say in their family finances - but that should be done with my XH. Then he can represent them.

I know it may sound petty, but I didn't choose to have a child and then lose some of her time to another woman. I hate it. I don't want to include her where it isn't necessary.

I'd happily have her at my child's graduation, because I see a role for her there. But the uni finance discussion - no. Let her husband represent them both for that.
It's not anger towards her, but towards the situation (and, honestly, him)

Often it is a case of oh he's awful he didn't provide, when, yes he did but not to the extent that she imagined he would at the beginning of the marriage or was doing at the time if the split as actually she only has a proportion of money due to divorce.

If your reality doesn't meet expectations then you become dissatisfied. So I think he has provided, but not to the extent that he would do had he still been married with no half siblings.

i think it was unfair to tell the children the terms of the settlement in some ways as they cannot compare what might have been reasonable to have if their parents remained together. My DD has only just begun to understand the cost of living, housing etc as a student so you are giving information which is difficult for them to argue against.

You have ten pounds. Is it enough? Fair? Depends what you are trying to buy, and what you are used to having.

In a lot of ways, a life for a single parent gets harder when children go to uni. You have to keep the larger house, with no support ( child no longer) but child still needs a bedroom for 50% of the year not to mention food. The loan / grant would not cover holidays easily. They should work, yes fine, but work is not always plentiful, and often employers do not like students leaving for 3-4 weeks at Easter Christmas and even longer over the long summer. Not all uni housing allows you to stay over the hols either, so it becomes a tricky situation for all.
Maybe you could house them over the holidays, and pay for food as your contribution, letting mum downsize?

"But the uni finance discussion - no."

Then when its legally not required, expect no support, sorry.

I they have joint finances, she deserves a say, as much as you do.

Ex wife did choose to become a single parent though. I'm feeling sorry for the poor sod who came home from duty abroad to find the locks changed!

lurked101 I don't claim the £400 a month that CMS would award me now, legally.
Personal reasons, I don't need it.

I was clear in my post that my XH's GF has every right to a say in their family finances. And my XH should discuss it with her (this is all hypothetical for me!).

I just think he should take the output of their discussion into our (hypothetical!) discussion.

I don't want to sit around treating my daughter's stepmother as an equal parent, because emotionally that is too fucking hard for me.

It's not personal to her.
I like her more than I like him!

I understand why the OP wants to be involved, but I thought it might help for her to hear how one XW feels.

I am so positive to my child about her stepmother. My money paid for a 'moving in present' my child wanted to buy for her child. Moving into a house I still own a third of, which I could have blocked as a result - and didn't.

I see positives for my child in having this woman in her life.

But it fucking hurts, because I never wanted to be a part time mum, and I never wanted to share big decisions with anyone but her father. It really hurts. Perhaps it's just because the timing is very recent and very raw for me.

I think the way this XW has behaved to the children verbally is appalling. But I thought it might help the OP to hear from a nice, normal woman who on the outside is reasonable as they come, friendly... but is still torn apart inside at ending up in a situation where another parent figure has a role in my child's life.

Cabrihna I'm afraid they are not children, they are adults. As I said at the beginning of the thread, I never once entered the discussion over maintenance or additional sundries, even when I thought they were extortion, because that was the term me of the divorce and the maintenance was not my business. However, this is joint money now-mine and his. I won't be excluded from that, and to be fair to my husband, he wouldn't discuss it without me.

And Head I know I didn't cover myself in glory showing them the agreement but I can't see what else we could have done? Hey had been told lies and this was the only way to prove it, sadly.

At that point, yes, I feel I have the right to judge her for that behaviour. Not for her holidays, or her cars, or her abundance of Christian Dior but for her bare faced and nasty deceit which has left two children completely devastated.

Cheers the OP. !!!

At 18 and 20 I still see them as children! But in any case I was referring to her bad behaviour in saying inappropriate things to them in the past too, so - children, adults, then, now, whatever - point is, I agree she sounds awful for dragging them into it.

I absolutely believe that you have a say with your husband in what support you give them now.

Where we disagree is that you think you and he should discuss it with XW.

As an XW, I think the discussion should be 1:1 between him and her - but that his input would be as agreed with you.

I also have fiancé now, and would definitely involve him in my thoughts and decisions. But I would not take him into any discussion directly with my XH.

Tbh, I wouldn't need to. I love him, he's a great support to me - but I can handle speaking to my XH about our child without him!

YANBU. As others have said, it's their mother that needs to step aside now. This is a conversation you and your DH should be having with his two adult children.

Needless to say, whatever funds you do decide to give them should be transferred to them and not their mother.

At 20 LittleGoat or Cabrinha as they'd say in São Paulo, I was living in Brazil, away from home for the first time.

I know they are our children even at 18 or 20, but they are adults and really would benefit from being allowed and encouraged to learn how the world works and how hard I this to make ends meet at times.

I think a lot of good will come out of this Ginny, I see the dss and dsd maturing and hopefully being closer to their dad. And I sincerely believe to you too. Not a bad thing at all. You sound lovely.

Course the DM ain't gonna like it, but that's what happens to liars I'm afraid, they get found out.

Cannot love, you have so much to be grateful for. And you are still so very bitter. It's so sad. I hope you can find a way to get past all that and be happy. Life goes on, clinging onto resentment and crap I'll only make you sad.

I truly wish I were as hard done by as you.

I'd sleep at night knowing my home was safe, knowing that no matter what I had a roof over my head and a place for my dc.

Alas my life is way more precarious.

I understood maintainance payments now go until the child leaves full time education? That would be reasonable I think. But to them, not to the mum. They could pay board to whoever puts them up in the hols.

I saw family members become homeless, well they moved in with other family members at that age due to divorce. It's a funny age, they are not quite on their feet, yet it's felt that at 18 payments stop. I don't think they can claim housing benefit either at that age.

I wondered if you could have the children live at your house for a bit if you aren't paying maintainance payments? Might help them see your children as theirs too.

wannabe. My ex walked out leaving me with 2 babies and one on the way. He hasn't paid a penny in 8 years. I work full time and always have. My children have a close relationship with their father and I have experienced all sorts of abuse in those years including social services, refusal to return baby and attempts to take the children using the court system. So no, I am not making excuses and no, I haven't squandered the divorce settlement - that is the roof over our heads. Everything else is down to me.

And to the dreadful woman up thread who believes I am an awful person because I won't support my children beyond 18, my ex is a very high earner - self employed - and lives a luxury life complete with boat and foreign holidays. If we get to 18, I have more than done my share. My life will be my own as soon as the youngest leaves and I intend to live it. In the meantime, i have focused on my children and done my best and will continue to do so.

ginny if the cars, holiday and labels are not an issue, why even mention them?

Projecting again cannot. This is not the same situation.

if a child over 18 doesn't earn enough to pay rent or buy their own place and cannot claim housing benefit, whose responsibility is it to house them, if any?

As an XW, I think the discussion should be 1:1 between him and her - but that his input would be as agreed with you.

I think it is the XW who doesn't need to be in the discussion now that the children are adults. The discussion should be between the adult children, OP and her DH. The XW should have her own discussion with the children regarding what she is willing to give them.