...to want a say in how much we give step children for uni?

[GinnyMcGinFace]

My husband and I have been together for ten years and have two sons. He also has two children from his previous marriage. His ex wife clearly hired a highwayman for a divorce lawyer because we have paid, religiously, £1200 a month for the children, plus half of uniforms, school trips etc. for years. She also got £250k in cash from the divorce and he got to keep the dog. Anyway, whilst the divorce agreement appears ridiculous to me, it was signed, sealed and delivered before I was on the scene so I've never really said much about it. However, the agreement is clear that it covers only until the children are 18-step daughter is now 20 and step son is 18. Both want to go to uni this year and have asked us-well, their dad actually-for financial support. He said of course we will support them, but it's a conversation we need to have altogether. His ex wife has lost her shit and says it's nothing to do with me and they aren't my children so I shouldn't be involved in what she called 'negotatiations'. I feel-as does my husband to be fair to him-that as this now sits outside of their maintenance agreement, the request is coming from our joint income and therefore I should be involved in making the decision about how much we can afford. My husband has made the point that whatever we agree for the older children we have to be able to offer the younger ones and my step daughter (I suspect repeating her mother) has said that her and her 'full' brother-her words-should be the priority.

I've always got on well with my step children and they adore their little brothers. They have become typical teenagers in that they only get in touch with their dad nowadays when they want something but he is not always that great at calling/texting them either.

Is it my business? Am I just an evil step mother bitch??

I don't resent my step children at all, far from it, but I DO resent them treating me like I don't count and I think that's fair enough to be honest. I certainly don't want them to 'go away', I love them, but sometimes love isn't about giving people whatever they want in case they think j don't love them is it? Or at least I don't think it is....I've thought and thought about it (hence the 04:40 posting) but I just can't get past the fact that they, and my own children, need to understand the value of money and I guess the bottom line is that they don't seem to. I think we have facilitated that because up until now they have had everything they've wanted and, because it was maintenance, we haven't said anything to the contrary.

To previous points: £600 a month is absurdly high for university I think and, whilst I am glad they want to go to uni, I think we should support their education not an extravagant social life-if the figure is doubled to include their mother's contribution that puts that figure into better context.

The maintenance figures aren't pointless without salaries as I am not complaining about them now; as I said it was agreed before I met him. However, my husband earns £60k. His ex wife earns a similar, amount. Nobody in this scenario is on the bread line but that isn't the point of my post. Having said that, it may have a bearing on how I feel-I do have a bit of the 'I did it on my own and had to eat beans out of a can and work solidly all summer to afford to eat' about me, because it's true. I had to struggle but it means that now I appreciate my education and the opportunities, and the salary, it has made possible for me.

It's clear you are quietly seething and a bit tetchy (of course £1200pcm is meaningless to quote until we know salary Actually on £60k that's a bit wince inducing.)

Don't get angry, get business like. The PP who said you and DH should set a figure offer it and not negotiate it is quite right. As long as there's no clause in their agreement that allows for CM to be extended to 21, then you're completely free to do that.

You only have to be fair and to square it with your own consciences. Paying as much as £600pcm each would do them no favours anyway.

I don't think you are being an evil step mother. They are both adults and capable of understanding their father has joint finances with you (his wife). If they want financial assistance from your joint income then it is only fair they discuss it with both of you.

I think in your husband's shoes I would quietly tell the kids that they are adults and that he would prefer to deal directly with them rather than with their mother. (I'd make it a condition of negotiation: you can't have a sensible conversation if someone is shouting over you).

I'd then ask them to go away and write a budget: how much money do they need, what for, and what other sources of funding can they access?

Plainly whatever is agreed needs to be equitable for all his children.

I think your right and I am funding my son next year as a single parent. Your husband needs to ask them to put together a package eg how much they will get, how much accommodation is etc and how much everyone is prepared to contribute.

I think possibly the best thing to do is decide whether you want to cover or part fund one single expense while they're at university, and the most obvious one would be rent. So the dc still have to take on grown up responsibilities such as loan for tuition fees etc and a part time job for spending money, but you are also supporting them to a certain extent (assuming that is also what you plan for your own children).

I think 1200 pcm on a 60k salary is not wince inducing or highway robbery - what do you think it costs to financially support 2 kids? It is just that we are so used to seeing men pay a pittance that a realistic amount of money seems high.

As far as university goes, there is now an expectation from the state that parents support their dc financially. The amount of maintenence loan they can borrow is calculated on parental income. My ds can only borrow the minimum amount, which is about 4.5 k. All students can borrow the full amount to cover tuition fees.

4.5k is not always enough to cover rent. We top up ds's rent and then give him about £250 pcm. If he needs one off expenses (like an expensive book, ball tickets etc) then we cover that too. If you give £300 each then that should cover basic lifestyle costs. Might be more if they are in London.

DS can live reasonably well in catered halls on what we give him. I will have to give more next year as he is in a shared house and will have bills and food shopping. Think he will have to cut down his costa consumption...

Anyway, yanbu to want a say in how household money is spent, but I think your dh does have to contribute. I think the exw is expecting this to come out of his money rather than yours and although that will impact on the amount of cash your household has left, she is taking the view that her dc existed when you got together so their costs are not a surprise.

I do agree that £600 each is too much on what your dh earns and she is taking the piss if she expects that to continue indefinitely. Also agree that your step children should appreciate their dad and not just call him when they want money.

Should clarify - 600 each is too much now they are adults and capable of summer work etc. Not too much for children.

I think that this is separate from maintenance, so you and your husband need to make an agreement together. Aren't there expectations these days about what parents are required to contribute? It'd probably be best to find out about that first.

Ginny, I'm afraid you do sound a bit resentful, with all the sarcasm and simmering annoyance in your OP. The bottom line, to me, is that whatever you would want him to do for his dc with you, it is only right and fair for him to do for his other dc. You do need to be involved in the conversation, because working out what you can do for them will naturally involve considering what you hope to do for your dc, so your dh's ex is BU in that respect. But I think you have to let them kick off and not get drawn into the antagonism, even in your thinking. Otherwise this has the potential to ruin your good relationship with them. And tbh you can't really blame them for wanting to be supported at a high level - what late-teen/young adult wouldn't? Yes, they will have to adjust their expectations, but try and remember your beef isn't with them.

They need to take the loans as there are many circumstances in which they will never be repayable or repayable in full. We have two sons and have topped up for them by £400 per month, they both managed quite well on that, you certainly don't need loans plus £600 at uni. Both of ours did courses where it wasn't possible to work during term time, but they have both worked in the holidays to earn more.

Very roughly calculated your H should be paying a minimum of £150 a week for the 18 year old until Child Benefit stops. Nothing for the twenty year old.

Personally I'd work out between you and DH how much you are both prepared to contribute. Student loan web sites offer some suggested guidelines, you need to factor in the fact that the family has two children and two uni students. A figure of around £50-60 a week per student seems about right.

Your DSC then have a similar adult conversation with their mother re any contribution she makes.

If their mum earns 60k yhey won't be getting access to high loan.
They should show you all money they have access to. The difference based on the actual cost should be split in half between your dh and their mum.

My dd is going to uni, I split with my ex, he pays 500 pm for both my kids. I think we will have to subsidise my dd at least 400 pm due to the fact that her loan (based on my salary which is much lower than 60k) won't even cover the cheapest accomodation she has chosen for herself. Accomodation is under 4k for 39 weeks.

£1200 on 60k I think is quite a bit especially as she works but I'm no expert and don't understand maintenance at all. I can see by the look of it his ex wants it to continue. I agree the parents should both put the same in. They are only young and not used to having to budget so it will be up to his dad and them to work out how much they need. It may even be different for each child because different courses cost different amounts.

They need to get into uni first, and then you sit and discuss what loans are available and where to live. My SD is currently at Uni and her mum and dad fund her living accommodation between them, and a loan covers the fees, which she will be paying back. My OH also gives her I think £50 per month and so does her mum, for food and such like.

Actually I think £4500 is the maximum maintainance loan you can get (I think it's a bit higher if you're in London) as that's what I got, and I get the maximum amount of funding! I'm poor (sob)! Haha! The expectation is that they then get a job to support themselves and top up what they need.

YANBU. It's your money too, and I agree that you and your DH should be able to offer younger children the same level of support.

I was at uni 2005-2008 and took all loans that were available to me, which basically covered accommodation. Tuition fees weren't covered because my offer was based on my parents income- I found this really frustrating as I wanted to do it myself!

In the end, my parents paid the £1100 tuition fees each year to make up the loan shortfall (if only fees were so low now!) on the proviso that I was sensible with money and didn't take out additional loans/ credit cards to pay for my lifestyle- their argument was that their contribution should stop that being necessary. They were right.

They also gave me £20 a week for food in term time only, and paid for books as well (always second hand from Amazon Marketplace).

I didn't work term time (very demanding course), but worked all the hours I could get in the holidays. I was always exhausted at the end of the holidays but I then ring fenced that money for 'fun' (socialising, clothes, ball tickets).

It won't hurt them to learn to budget/ go without. I was talking on the phone with my old housemate the other day about how we had to live off Weetabix in the last few days of each term because we'd invariably run out of money. Or have Tesco value pasta and chopped tomatoes if we were lucky

Ginnys annoyance at the situation is justified, the attitude that the step children's siblings don't count and that Ginny doesn't have a say over how family money is spent... very understandable.
Perhaps the figures should also consider what the accommodation fees are, what the tuition fees are etc. so that any money you do decide to give (because they are sounding a bit entitled here tbh) should be paid directly to what it's intended for so it can't be pissed away.
Is it worth considering that if you can afford to give more than you decide, can you stash it away for when they finish, for a deposit on a property etc? but for goodness sakes, don't tell them about it in case something goes tits up & you have to reassign the money for other things that you can't foresee right now.

They do need to take loans, but I think people don't always realise that it isn't necessarily possible to borrow enough to live on and the sort of part time jobs many of us did while studying are no longer so easily available. The loans plus couple of shifts a week in a bar model does not apply in the same way it used to. As their mother is a high earner, they're not going to be able to borrow very much, so they are going to need some parental support for uni. Without knowing where they're going to be and how much their accommodation will cost, it's hard to come up with appropriate figures.

FWIW I can see why OP would bristle at the stepdaughters 'full brother priority' remark. That's pretty breathtakingly offensive and she's old enough to know better.

Does the ex expect the money to be paid to her or directly to the children young adults ?

It doesn't necessarily follow that each biological parent will make the same financial contribution as they might not have the same financial resources.

Unless they have agreed otherwise it shouldn't matter, if my family go out for a meal with my brother and family who earns about 30 times what I do, I don't expect him to pay more than half the bill.

Ask yourself what you want:
A. For your children at that stage
B. What future family you and dh want when these young people are grown up with their own children etc.

If you are guided by the needs of each family member's wellbeing into the future you will manage this well. I would watch for the hooks to old stories here and rise above. Feck the ex-wife, don't get sucked into her drama - while realising in this context, like a MIL, issues with her control are really issues you need to address with your dh and leave him to sort.

Even if the DC take out loans, this may well fall short if paying for accommodation costs and general living expenses.

First, OP needs to find out what loan they will receive ( it's means tested), then the cost of accommodation.

Second, work out what a student needs to live on.

YANBU. Have they gone through UCAS and formally been offered places at university? Have the sorted their paperwork for tuition fee loans, maintenance loans, and accommodation? What will be their monthly incomings and outgoings? These are the things they need to present to you and your DH.

Penfold it is not the case that OPs dh only needs to pay 150 for his 18 year old. That is breathtakingly low. Just because it has become the case that some parents opt out of paying the true cost of raising their kids, that doesn't make it right. (I know that doesn't apply to OP's dh).

There is an expectation from the state now that parents will support their legally adult dc through university - that is why the kids have capped loans. It's really not like it was for my generation. Not all kids can get holiday work even, although I'm assuming Ginny's sd can because she paid for her own travel. A lot of the traditional student jobs are now taken by 'proper' adults.