...to want a say in how much we give step children for uni?

[GinnyMcGinFace]

My husband and I have been together for ten years and have two sons. He also has two children from his previous marriage. His ex wife clearly hired a highwayman for a divorce lawyer because we have paid, religiously, £1200 a month for the children, plus half of uniforms, school trips etc. for years. She also got £250k in cash from the divorce and he got to keep the dog. Anyway, whilst the divorce agreement appears ridiculous to me, it was signed, sealed and delivered before I was on the scene so I've never really said much about it. However, the agreement is clear that it covers only until the children are 18-step daughter is now 20 and step son is 18. Both want to go to uni this year and have asked us-well, their dad actually-for financial support. He said of course we will support them, but it's a conversation we need to have altogether. His ex wife has lost her shit and says it's nothing to do with me and they aren't my children so I shouldn't be involved in what she called 'negotatiations'. I feel-as does my husband to be fair to him-that as this now sits outside of their maintenance agreement, the request is coming from our joint income and therefore I should be involved in making the decision about how much we can afford. My husband has made the point that whatever we agree for the older children we have to be able to offer the younger ones and my step daughter (I suspect repeating her mother) has said that her and her 'full' brother-her words-should be the priority.

I've always got on well with my step children and they adore their little brothers. They have become typical teenagers in that they only get in touch with their dad nowadays when they want something but he is not always that great at calling/texting them either.

Is it my business? Am I just an evil step mother bitch??

Ginny Must be vv senior to get a half pay pension; dh was a Cdr, had been in since 18 and retired the day before his 53rd birthday, at the end of his commission, but didn't quite get a half pay pension, but pension calculations didn't kick in until 21 for orifices!

I never thought dh would leave and would take an extension, but he had had enough, was bored, and they couldn't offer him anything he hadn't already done (bar Procurement, which is not his bag at all). We had been in Brussels for a while with him doing various appointments here, and he got a civvy job here, but in the same line of work iyswim. I think his entry saw the beginning of the end of Forces life as it was when I was growing up as a Naval brat. There is life outside.....!!!!

scary he joined when he was just a boy-he did a couple of years for the Queen first-and although I'm rubbish at keeping up to date with which terms he is on I do know it's half pay if he comes out at 55 but that would change I think if he changed pension terms. I am a terrible wife and just nod and agree on these matters I'm afraid, I only know this much about his pension as it was discussed when we bought our house and planned our savings. I know, there are suffragettes turning in their graves....

Head If the govt consider the students adult enough to be taking on loans of this size, and for this long, then, as they are adults, HMG can't then expect to use parental income as a basis for the loan.

This is precisely why we didn't go down the loan route, amongst other reasons. Either loan all the students the same, or restrict participation and go back to fees paid and grants. The students don't have an income...my lad certainly doesn't, and just as I wouldn't expect my income to be taken into account for his mortgage application for example, I don't expect it to be taken into account for a loan he, as an adult, is taking out.

Ginny, the AFPS is about to change (or may already have done so). It's going from a final salary to a defined benefit scheme and there isn't any option this time as there was when it changed from 75 to 05.

www.gov.uk/.../armed-forces-pension-scheme-2015-guidance may be worth a look.

Thank you, I'll have a gander-he will also have a war pension. Although all of this is a digression I suppose because we will support all the kids regardless; it's all just so bloody complex! Thank you though, I appreciate the effort X

scary parental income is used to disallow the loan. I agree you are either adult or not but it seems that the govt have decided otherwise, which they are entitled to do.

They have also made it a higher age for housing benefit I think, we do seem to be going back to the age of majority being older than 18.

Whether you agree with this or not it is the situation.

Oh and scary, I went to uni when there were grants. It wasn't as rosy as you imagine as grants were only for the poorer families. My parents had to pay the entire living costs, as there was quite a steep sliding scale similar to the loans.

Our income doesn't count as far as loans are concerned as the store children don't live with us for the majority of the time-although they are welcome to. (Thank you to previous poster who guided me to the right site to check) However, their mother is a hard working high earner and so they won't get a full loan. Equally, we wouldn't expect their mother to support them if we weren't (that sounds far more angelic than it is as the sentiment does reverse as well...) Whether or not we are willing to support them is not the issue at all, we have expected it-they're very clever kids-but it is the sense of entitlement and treating me as though I don't exist which is upsetting.

Apologies, I can't find the post now, but somebody said to look after my own family first. I really appreciate the time everyone takes to post, and have benefitted from all the opinions even when they are not ones I share, but there is no question about 'my family/his family'-they are ALL my family. I took the decision to become a step parent with my eyes wide open and it's a responsibility I take very seriously. It is also, for the most part, a pleasure but we have to negotiate this kink in the road. For all their faults, and I have more than a few myself, I do love those guys, I am just not a fan of their current behaviour.

Head I went to uni at 20 (and married) in 1986, and I couldn't get a grant as I wasn't considered a mature student (even though I was married), and it had to be assessed on my Dad's income, and not that of dh, who wasn't as senior as my dad (both in the Forces). Dad wouldn't fill the forms in as I was married....

So nice that you think I'm young enough not to have had a grant!

Having a child at university myself, I do understand how it all works, and I think it is a pernicious system. They are either adults, in which case assess the actual income of the student (in ds's case nil), or give everyone the same amount without checking parental income, or at least pay the fees for everyone, and means test the maintenance grant.

I went as an independent as I had a child myself (my DS slept in a little home made bed on the floor in halls and I smuggled him in) . Good job really as my parents were broke and didn't help me or my brother - he got a fiver and a case of beans.

I have just done my sons finance for September and as my wages aren't great and we are both disabled he should be OK. He uni has already messaged him to Say he will get an extra bursary from them.

I agree it's a horrid system, and sets parents against children, who often don't actually have any other means of support.

But, I think it's the system, and as such I resented having to ask parents for my allowance.

it wasn't my fault they earned what they earned and it wasn't my fault that the government set it up like this.

We insist that our DD doesn't say thank you for hers...it is her entitlement we feel. We could equally have been taxed by the government for the same ends.

I just think that's where we differ, which is what makes the world go round. We don't expect daily gushes of gratitude, just acknowledgement that we are a family and that our money is something they are welcome to, but not entitled to. The fact you insist your daughter doesn't say thank you suggests to me that you NEED to insist-I.e. That she has said thank you and you've told her it's not necessary? I could be wrong there. However, that's not the situation we are in. We are dealing with step children who ignore nearly half our income (mine) and think that they are entitled to our money, and more entitled than their step brothers are. You're right, the system is gash, but it's the system and I'm not complaining about that.

Hmm. I agree it's a different perspective. Before she applied we informed her that she wouldn't get any grant, so we would be the ones making up the shortfall. We talk in terms of money being due, they are set payment dates, money being owed. I think she would love to thank us - she tries but the best thanks will be seeing her graduate.

We have four too, so I understand about money having to spread further. However it was our decision to have four, and we try not to make them compete for resources. Of course they understand implicitly, when there is a cake on the table for example but it's more difficult when one can't do an activity because I am doing something with the others. ( usually another one will offer to be the parent in that situation and take one to a club etc)

It must be very difficult in your position, you want acknowledgement in general from them I guess. It's a difficult line to tread for you, how much acknowledgement, what would you like them to say? Could you outline this for them?

there will as others said be lots of potential minefields to navigate, e.g. Weddings.

I guess lots of talking to be done.

Acknowledging that I exist is all I'm after. 'Thank you, we appreciate it.' That's it. A 'please can we talk about how much you're able to help us with uni?' Rather than 'Dad, we need your money for uni.' Manners, basically, is my sole request.

Ginny , I totally understand your wish to be part if the discussion and your contribution to be acknowledged. I may have missed it but does your DH tell them that these things will need to be talked over with you before any decisions are made ?
I sympathise because my own adult children seem to think that Dad is the one to ask for money / loans etc. in spite of all our assets being jointly owned. I worked full time in a professional position for many years and out earned my DH for quite some time ( much to his joy .... and my FIL's disgust ). Both children know this but it is still Dad they ask. It's very annoying and quite hurtful but I suppose it's my own fault as I have never spoken up about it. On the other hand my DH has also never said " your mum and I will discuss it and get back to you ". It's as if it's an ego thing ... the big man in charge of the finances. When I mentioned it to him I was told I was making a fuss over nothing ... but it isn't nothing is it ? I just wanted you to know that I understand that this probably isn't really about the money but regarding you as an " equal " provider.

I think that's a very reasonable request. I wouldn't like at all to be seen as a money pit. Do they show gratitude in other ways? For example, my DD is at uni and has on occasion when we are struggling for childcare she's come home, got the kids to school and driven back in time for lectures. She is always happy to help out. So I do get help back. Do they give to you? And the little ones?

Head what gets my goat is that the govt says the kids are adult, and have to apply for the loan, the parents cannot be involved due to data protection. If the kids are considered adult enough to be taking on this debt, then they are adult enough to not need parental income to be assessed for it. I know it's the system, but it should be altered.

Ds does say thanks for the tuition fees, the rent and the allowance, and for his Dad taking a job abroad which helps with it, as dh could have stopped working when he retired from HM Forces. Ds also thanks me for driving to UK to luck him up and drop him back. He isn't entitled to these things, and it's good he appreciates that we have made choices to facilitate his education.

He doesn't get his allowance unless I get proof of life once a month by phone.

I totally agree that parental income should have NOTHING to do with the loans. The current system infantizes those who are adults by every other definition.

I am also dead against tuition fees. I would prefer we move to a system where undergraduate degrees at the vast majority of universities are completed while working. It's like that here in the US with places as prestigious as NYU having classes run through to 10pm so those working regular jobs can attend. If working, I would like a system where the employer pay tuition costs from gross wages to the university and any remaining amout is subject to regular tax. If not working, loans to cover costs provided at zero interest.

Late to the thread but the cheek of the SD saying she and her brother "should have priority" would guarantee she got fuck all from me. Selfish cow.

Her little siblings should be much more of a priority because they are still children. What a horrible young woman.

Another way to do it is to take into account the parents income when they are happy to subsidise their dcs for Uni but to not take them into account if said young adult is fully independent/don't want to have anything to do with them etc...

That's what was happening when I was a student in France. Much fairer imo.

There is no reason why people who have the full back up of their parents (and know that it's their parents that will pay the low interest loan anyway) will get as much support as the ones who have no one behind them to support them or the ones who are already married etc...

I fully agree that the current government has made lot clear that parents are responsible for the their dcs until much later on than 18yo (benefits, loans etc etc)

I am also dead against tuition fees.... If working, I would like a system where the employer pay tuition costs from gross wages to the university and any remaining amout is subject to regular tax. If not working, loans to cover costs provided at zero interest

Is that exactly what happens with tuition fees though? When you work and earn over a threshold amount, you pay back your student loan from your gross earnings and then the remainder is subject to regular tax.
And if you aren't working or are working but earning under the threshold, you don't pay back anything. And the loans are subject to a minimal interest rate that is in line with inflation, so you don't pay back less than you borrowed in real terms.

I'm talking about income earned while studying.

Example: You get a job as an admin clerk/ in retail/ scrubbing toilets. You work 40hrs a week making say £5/hr. Total income is £10,400 a year. The first £9k is paid by your employer to the university. You pay income tax on the £1,400.

Loans taken out to cover tuition and living costs would be repaid after graduation at zero interest. I don't agree to charging the interest at the rate of inflation. Removing the interest helps clear the debt ASAP.

Example: You get a job as an admin clerk/ in retail/ scrubbing toilets. You work 40hrs a week making say £5/hr. Total income is £10,400 a year. The first £9k is paid by your employer to the university. You pay income tax on the £1,400.

WTF?! You want students to work full time, on minimum wage ON TOP of their studies, in order to earn a few hundred pounds a year? How in any way is that better than the current system of paying it back when you are earning over a certain threshold? What would these poor students live on after paying all their money to the university?

Bloody hell, I worked full time in a call centre whilst studying, whilst it didn't kill me it sure as hell wasn't going to the university !

Indentured servants from 18 😩