...to want a say in how much we give step children for uni?

[GinnyMcGinFace]

My husband and I have been together for ten years and have two sons. He also has two children from his previous marriage. His ex wife clearly hired a highwayman for a divorce lawyer because we have paid, religiously, £1200 a month for the children, plus half of uniforms, school trips etc. for years. She also got £250k in cash from the divorce and he got to keep the dog. Anyway, whilst the divorce agreement appears ridiculous to me, it was signed, sealed and delivered before I was on the scene so I've never really said much about it. However, the agreement is clear that it covers only until the children are 18-step daughter is now 20 and step son is 18. Both want to go to uni this year and have asked us-well, their dad actually-for financial support. He said of course we will support them, but it's a conversation we need to have altogether. His ex wife has lost her shit and says it's nothing to do with me and they aren't my children so I shouldn't be involved in what she called 'negotatiations'. I feel-as does my husband to be fair to him-that as this now sits outside of their maintenance agreement, the request is coming from our joint income and therefore I should be involved in making the decision about how much we can afford. My husband has made the point that whatever we agree for the older children we have to be able to offer the younger ones and my step daughter (I suspect repeating her mother) has said that her and her 'full' brother-her words-should be the priority.

I've always got on well with my step children and they adore their little brothers. They have become typical teenagers in that they only get in touch with their dad nowadays when they want something but he is not always that great at calling/texting them either.

Is it my business? Am I just an evil step mother bitch??

As the OPs dh is in the Forces, the pension (if it wasn't split during the divorce), is not too bad.

We give ds £500 per month during term time, and pay the rent and the fees. Dh works abroad and we can have help with education costs as part of the package, hence no loans. I don't pay an allowance in the holidays, as ds is home with us, and can therefore do jobs for me to earn some money. There are problems with students getting jobs where we are as the labour laws for students here are complex.

Rent can be variable....we pay £355 per month, the rent includes broadband, and the l/l is really nice, and replaces things when requested. The microwave died, ds emailed him, and he turned up with a new one the next day. There are no en-suites, no dishwasher, and the position of the loo is bracing(!), but I wasn't paying the kind of rent needed for him to live as he does at home. This has been a learning experience for him, and has done him good. The rent for the new swept up private halls at his uni was about £8k per year....ouch. He rents a room in a house 20 minutes walk from college, so he gets free exercise by walking to and for, and has learned to budget. He can now see why I buy meat that's been reduced and freeze it. He rings me and tells me about the steak he buys reduced at the Spar shop.

I am surprised the ex got away with changing the locks on an MQ. I hope she got charged loads on march out.

Student finance is a rapidly changing set of goalposts. Only this year the grants were lost entirely and even the loans became means-tested. (That is only going to get worse in future years). Hence, this year, if you are of high income but high mortgage payments, for example, you can be hit if the student cannot get a loan, simply because otherwise they couldn't even go to uni. That can often be the situation where divorce has stripped assets and the new family is therefore conceived quite old, when you are earning better.
Definitely YANBU, I speak as another step-parent, the real issue here is your relationship with your DH and how not to let it get tainted by the step situation or finances at this late point when all has gone so well. I highly recommend the book Stepmonster and the website Steptalk (dominated by US parents but still very helpful to UK members, especially over the student support debates they have there).

You've done the right thing dealing direct with the child and not via the mother and putting the ball in the child's court to come up with a view of the costs.

When they come up with the income/expenditure they're expecting, you and DH need to discuss how much you can contribute, discuss with each other, no involvement from exW at all. Then together you can tell the child what you are able to contribute, they will have to work out how to make up the shortfall, whether through their mother, part time work, holiday work, loans, whatever. No negotiation, no involvement from the mum.

I also agree with you that there can be no expectation or right to any contributions from parents. Of course it is helpful and wanted but it isn't a right.

Ginny

Well there I am afraid we will have to disagree. They are not entitled to it.

Completely agree, this air of entitlement really pisses me off, as for the little madams comment about 'full blood' I would have been tempted to spill a bit of the precious stuff.

(Figuratively before someone accuses me of abuse!!)

I think it more than reasonable that you have a say in how much is paid to adult step children. My DS's only receive the tuition fee loan and the lowest maintenance loans. We give them £300 per month during term time which tops up accommodation shortfalls, pays for books and equipment, food, beer and travel home. They are expected to work during the summer holidays (tourist trade fish and chips so mad long hours). They could live on much less I suspect!
If the ex is on a good wage as well then it should be reasonable for her to pay half ie £150 per child a month.

Blindsider - what a horrible attitude. So kids should pay the price of their parents' high incomes. Nice.

£300 each child per month over the course of a full year should be ok. That might need to be split into £150 from mum and £150 from dad.

i remember going to sixth form, and listening to conversations on how I was lucky I was "allowed to go" yet being encouraged to do so!

Again, thank you to everyone for their answers, it's all been very useful and I've used lots of your posts to help my Google searches today!

The kids have sent a joint email back tonight-it did say 'Dear Dad' even though the original was signed from us both (and it was actually sent from my email address) which has really irritated him-he feels (and I'm inclined to agree) that they must have done that part on purpose but even if they didn't, it's going to be the first part of our conversation. However, to their credit, they have been truthful and said they aren't entirely sure about costs but they have asked to come to see us next weekend by which time they will have found the costs involved and we will go from there. We are going to look into the loan amounts ourselves as some of the information is conflicting and I can see how it'll be confusing.

To answer a couple of the points made by the posters-our children buying houses is most definitely a concern for us and we do have savings for each of them to help but these aren't huge. They don't know about it. We then need to work out what we will do if any of the children don't want to go to uni! Do we give them the same money we supported the others with?? It's a minefield!

Also, and this is just because a couple of people have talked about the ex wife's salary and her having a partner or not...her money is great (she's worked like a dog in her career and she does a job I could NOT do) and she doesn't have a mortgage and hasn't since the divorce due to the money that she was given. We do have a mortgage because my husband had to start again. We are very happy so that's not a dog, it is what it is. And yes, my husband's pension is decent and that is one financial asset that he did manage to retain so she isn't entitled to any of that. His lump sum will pay off our mortgage if he retires at 55 but he has been offered the chance to sign on to 60 which he is likely to do.

These kids think the family money is their dads money.

These kids think they have more right to it than your children with him, the "blood" reference I'd missed until someone brought it up.

The Dear Dad reply is deliberate, and to be honest I'd take that as a starting point of negotiations. They don't NEED any help, they can get loans and a job and tailor their suits to fit. They can also tell you what their mother is putting in first. You and your H have carried the can the whole time and it's her turn now to pitch in. I'd let them get all the figures together and tell them to come back to you both to show what they think they can raise and how they can live.

Only after they have found a place to live, and jobs and made a proper case should any money be offered.

The coming over to see you is extremely presumptuous. It's to try to manipulate and pressure further.

My bet is that they engage with your h solely on this too.

I think your h needs to have a word about their treatment of you and to tell them to come to you as a bank of last resort

They need to learn a lot about life.

You'd think the dd, having travelled and been out and about will have learned a bit about the value of money and how to raise it.

hissy loans are not enough, and if the loan is capped due to parental income that' makes it more difficult.

This is the problem when divorce occurs. I think it's right they only discuss this with their dad, I think they don't want to expect you to pay for them and maybe that recognises it's up to their dad, not you. Difficult when their dad is financially attached to someone else! It is his obligation, not yours, although I understand that does have consequences for the amount of money left for your family.

HISSY I'LL SAY IT AGAIN - THEY CANNOT GET FULL LOANS.

OP they appear to regard their mother and their father as being the ones who will support them - you know what with them being their actual parents. Quite a reasonable assumption. So emailing their father is quite reasonable. If you and he split up he would still be supporting them. They don't expect anything from you. That's a good thing surely?

How you divvy up the household budget is nothing to do with them.

I do however agree it's a minefield if one goes to uni and another doesn't though....

Titchy that may be their assumption, but their assumption is incorrect and has been pointed out to them. I married my husband knowing that, as children, he would support them. But they are not children now, they are adults. It isn't acceptable to us that I am ignored-the bottom line is that if it were only my husband's income that they took into account then we wouldn't be able to pay them anything at all: his money isn't bad but we do have a big mortgage which he had to start late as he had already lost his money and previous house. C'est la vie, but it does mean that where, at this age, he had expected to have paid off his mortgage and be more than able to support them, this is not the case. Whatever their assumptions, it is wholly incorrect to suggest it will only be his money that supports them and I'm afraid I find it downright rude to be ignored, purposefully.

We are going to investigate loans etc as we really don't know the situation there and we are more than happy to support them, but we are not 'obliged'...we are happy and willing, but not obliged....

He took on a debt before you met him, if you help him pay it that's fine but I don't think it's really for you to get involved with negotiations with the children. You can however divvy up the household budget with him as titchy said.

GinnyMcGinFace mine went at 53, as the RN hadn't yet aligned with the Army and RAF, and so go 2 years earlier. Have a good look at what is happening with the new AFPS, and if he retains rights from 75 or 05 (dh was on 75). My db is still in, and is a tad concerned how it will affect his grandfather rights. He stayed on 75 when it all changed with 05, and as a pusser, he should know!

There are lucrative alternatives to staying in until 60!

headofthehives sorry, I am not sure what you're referring to? We have a mortgage-is that what you mean? It's our mortgage, not just his, not one he took on before I met him? Sorry, have I misunderstood? (Perfectly possible, long day...)

do they know which unie they want to g oto?
costs of accomodation vary deamaticaly

use this www.gov.uk/student-finance-calculator to get how much loan they could get if they started uni this Autumn

there you enter their mum's salary & few more details and get the max loan they can get

This is from the LSE website:

Household residual income

This is effectively the household income BEFORE tax and AFTER any pension contributions or allowances for dependant children.

For all those dependent students (i.e. not independent) then the income assessment is based on your combined parents' income – though if you have substantial savings/investments of your own generating income they will be taken into account.

If your parents are divorced or separated then they will assess the income of the parent you live with most of the time (if that's not clear cut, it's at the discretion of Student Finance England) – if that parent remarries or has a cohabiting partner, their joint income will then be assessed.

scary He will be on a half pay pension whichever option he chooses but in fairness it's not about need after he is 55, he simply has the military coat sing through his veins and I can't see him ever leaving though choice!

£1200 a month sounds like alot for 2 adult children !

I agree that you need to know costs of going to uni upfront
Emphasis on their own student loan

I would ensure that you look after your family first with savings, pension, bills etc

If you are going to pay towards Uni. Pay the child directly

I would emphasise part time or summer job

What else will you be expected to pay for in the future ? car, house, wedding, gap year travelling etc

"Bank of Mum and Dad" how far does it stretch ?

You are expected to make provision for children I think, morally as that's how the system is set up...and although yes they technically are adults the system doesn't recognise this. Perhaps you should complain to the government? I agree it irritates me too.

It's not his children's fault that he took a large mortgage out...but that's the same for everyone. We could take a larger mortgage, but that would impact on our ability to provide in other areas. having more children, ditto.

I wonder if you hadn't expected that it would cost - and they would need help. So it's come as an unexpected bill.

I agree to getting them to look at the cost of housing - it varies so much.

Don't shout at me titchy.

The loans and whether they are full or not are irrelevant. The dd knows how to raise money for travelling, so dare say she knows how to make money to sustain herself.

The issue here is that they are failing to acknowledge that the money they are expecting is coming from their father and his wife and they are not addressing the op in any of this.

It's the entitlement and lack of respect. The email came from OP email address and was signed from both of them, the LEAST these kids could have done is as a minimum address them both. They are literally asking for money, without even having done any investigation as to what they themselves can raise and do for themselves.

There are 4 children in the family. Not one takes priority over the other, a fact that appears to have evaded the minds of this pair. Not even between them could they muster respect for their fathers wife.

I for one would not offer them a cent until they acknowledge the fact that they are 2 out of 4 kids and that the money they are holding their hands out for is not a right.

If I were their dad, id give them a stern talking to, tell them that they have to come back as last resort when they have raised what they have raised and secured what they can secure. Again, I'd want to see what their mother is putting in before committing anything, and nothing if they didn't respect the fact that money Decisons come from both husband and wife.

These kids need to think hard. I don't blame their dad being cross, it must be so disappointing to see them behaving like this.

HE didn't take on a mortgage, WE did. And no it's not their fault at all, and we can perfectly well afford it with our joint income. We could have bought a smaller house, but we bought a larger one because we always wanted to give all of the children their own rooms rather than make my step children feel second best in a place they should be able to regard as a home. The point I was making was not that I mind, or want to complain, but that our finances are inextricably linked. We won't be splitting bills between us to cater for my step children children not recognising my contribution, I'm afraid.