...to want a say in how much we give step children for uni?

[GinnyMcGinFace]

My husband and I have been together for ten years and have two sons. He also has two children from his previous marriage. His ex wife clearly hired a highwayman for a divorce lawyer because we have paid, religiously, £1200 a month for the children, plus half of uniforms, school trips etc. for years. She also got £250k in cash from the divorce and he got to keep the dog. Anyway, whilst the divorce agreement appears ridiculous to me, it was signed, sealed and delivered before I was on the scene so I've never really said much about it. However, the agreement is clear that it covers only until the children are 18-step daughter is now 20 and step son is 18. Both want to go to uni this year and have asked us-well, their dad actually-for financial support. He said of course we will support them, but it's a conversation we need to have altogether. His ex wife has lost her shit and says it's nothing to do with me and they aren't my children so I shouldn't be involved in what she called 'negotatiations'. I feel-as does my husband to be fair to him-that as this now sits outside of their maintenance agreement, the request is coming from our joint income and therefore I should be involved in making the decision about how much we can afford. My husband has made the point that whatever we agree for the older children we have to be able to offer the younger ones and my step daughter (I suspect repeating her mother) has said that her and her 'full' brother-her words-should be the priority.

I've always got on well with my step children and they adore their little brothers. They have become typical teenagers in that they only get in touch with their dad nowadays when they want something but he is not always that great at calling/texting them either.

Is it my business? Am I just an evil step mother bitch??

Titchy I don't 'fail to realise' that at all, quite the opposite. I have always expected to support all of the children, I want to in fact, my concern is that the children don't recognise my contribution as being important.

But you're not expected to OP - your dh and their dm are.

Which means that I am too. We don't have separate money-his and hers-we are a partnership in every sense of the word. Our money is our money. When I married him, I made a commitment not only to him but to his children, and I am happy to support them, I simply want them to recognise that we are happy to help, but it is a joint contribution and is not something they are actively entitled to.

And all I'm saying is that actually they kind of are entitled to it. It's an expectation that parents at least pay the difference between the loan they get and the maximum loan.

I don't really get the angst. You and your dh look at how much needs paying to them, and how much you can afford - be reasonable - he should probably contribute half, more if you work and his ex has no earning partner. Tell the kids and if the relationship with the ex is acrimonious tell the kids the rest will have to come from her.

Well there I am afraid we will have to disagree. They are not entitled to it. We are more than happy to support them, we will enjoy supporting them as being able to do that is the result of years of very hard work, saving and so on. They are welcome to a reasonable amount, but they are not entitled to it and they should certainly understand that our joint income is exactly that-joint.

And to clarify, I feel exactly that way about all four of our children, not simply my step children.

I agree Ginny, you put in, you get a say, they don't get to raise issue.

Ginny, I am completely mystified by all this. I have 3 at Uni. Two of mine and one of dhs. Their student loans/finance and the amount of parental contribution expected is based ENTIRELY on the HOUSEHOLD INCOME where they are resident. One of my my DSC lives with us and goes to Uni, thus we are responsible.
This is also the case for my own two. It's our joint household income and nothing to do with how much their father earns, this is not factored in at all. There isn't even a question about a non resident parent on the form. The loan is worked out on the income of the students resident family . Thus if their mother (and step father if there is one) earn bugger all, the child/adult will get full loan and with careful budgeting can cover all costs. If they are better off, then THEY are expected to make the contribution as its been assessed on THEIR income. You are NOT in the mix at all.

Any money you and your DH want to contribute is a bonus. I'm not saying you shouldn't make a contribution, just that the state makes absolutely no expectation that you will be or should be doing this.

Absolutely you should be at the conversation about YOU money so that they understand that is coming from BOTH of you.

I don't know when some people last went to Uni, or had children who did. The loans do not cover basic costs, no matter how careful students budget. You'd be lucky if they even covered the rent, let alone bills, food, books, etc.
Unless students wait until they are 25 and count as mature students for financial reasons, they are entitled to support from their parents. Their loan amount will take into account parental/household income and it is expected that parents will contribute additional money. Obviously parents can't be made to, but they are expected to.

On the bright side Ginny, you shouldn't, as a household, feel obliged to pay the full costs to put the kids through university. Their mum should pay half - don't let her palm all the expense onto you.

She seems well capable of it. Am that she changed the locks on the house while her husband was posted away.

Totally agree with you titchy

i think ethically and the governments intention is that parents make up the shortfall. Otherwise you are penalising offspring for the financial success you enjoy. Whether you like it if not, in has been decided that parental income is taken into account when applying for a loan. The government could have made it more concrete by applying higher taxes instead.

for my DD it's a neutral transaction, I don't want her to thank me, nor feel grateful, it is the tax we pay for being successful ourselves.

Can I ask where she is looking to go to uni?

I had a nosey, tuition fees seem to be largely loan based so not counted. A maintenance grant of £4300 (based on £60k) income falls just shy of the £4500 term based student accommodation in Leeds (all bills included) leaving a £200 deficit. Expenses such as food and essentials shouldn't add up to more than £300 a month. So actually even if you halved current CM to £300 (which naturally will be matched by her mom) she has an incredibly generous living allowance.

I say this as someone who self funded through Med school in London (my parents lived abroad and couldn't send much due to crippling exchange rates). It's, what do they call it, character building.

Since when did halls become so expensive? I'm feeling so very old right now.... and poor.

Anyway I'm sending my kids to Canada. They have citizenship so it's $CAD6k a year in tuition plus living costs. A lot of courses are run over 5 years instead of 4 with the extra time spent getting work experience (paid). My cousins all graduated with zero debt and amazing job offers. My aunt and uncle paid tuition while they paid living costs.

Mygrandchildrenrock . One in second year, two in first year. All on full loan and maintenance grants due to our household income. None of them receive a penny in parental contribution as we do not have it to spare and the assessment made on basis that we couldn't do this. None have part time jobs at the moment (term time) although they all work full time in Uni break (June-Sept) Yet ALL are financially savvy enough to manage well with no additional debt. - All at RG unis so paying full fees and uni hall/shared house rent in south of England.
If children have been taught to budget whilst growing up, they can manage fine at University.

Universties have become businesses now that students are paying fees - they have to compete so offer decent living accommodation now, rather than the skanky places a lot of us lived in. They all have Costas etc on campus and shops - some are like mini villages with hairdressers and post offices on site. Very different to the early 90's - my campus had a rubbish coffee machine and a bookshop!

Im not sure why you are going on about or getting involved with whatever your DH's ex is saying. The DCs are adults so unless you both like unecessary drama your DH can deal directly with them re. monetary matters.

IWILL I had no idea. Mine didn't even have a book shop. A few years later a new student union bar was opened and the one I used remained open as well and rebranded "the black hole" or something. You could get breakfast in the downstairs of the student union and lunch in the cantine and a bar/pool tables beneath that. Yes, big business so kind of center Parcs for students. How sad. The universities are actively encouraging debt.

Maintainence grants have been stopped now, it's loans from now on and often they don't cover accommodation, let alone the cost of food/books.

You should definitely get a say in this.
When I went to uni about 8 years ago, I was living on about £400 a month, most of which was a bursary I had been granted, with a little bit of top-up from my parents, who also paid my self-catering student accom. I was lucky and am very grateful to them, and they had been putting money into accounts specifically for study support for years. I also worked every summer as I had placements to attend in semester time.

I agree with the people who are saying you should decide with your DH what you want to pay and offer that to your DSC. However, if you want them to be grateful and fully understanding of your contribution, you might have to wait a few years! Young people don't usually have the biological brain to "get" all the intricacies of empathy you are expecting as reflected in the "full" sibling comment. I wouldn't be inclined to bang on to them about your contribution but wait for them to realise in their own time...it will come eventually. I'd try to avoid the "us and her" bit too; point out to them that as they are adults you feel it is better if they negotiate with you directly without involving their Mum as it is a lesson in life. As parents you can share info without arguing. As a step-parent I've found that if I keep my lip buttoned (not always easy!), your step-children normally come to appreciate your input and, if they don't, no amount of trying to persuade them otherwise will make the slightest bit of difference!

I think that you and your DH should sit down and figure out what you can actually afford while setting aside funds for your retirement, your other two children.

Offer that. If they want to go to uni badly enough especially in an expensive location they will make it work.

I think all of your posts are very measured and reasonable op. I would think exactly as you do. You DH has behaved in an exemplary manner and you have been supportive of this.

I also agree that where you have gone wrong is not teaching them the value of money enough. And I think this is a trap that a lot of modern parents have fallen into. We have tried so hard to teach them the value of money but my DC do take it for granted and I would say that they feel quite entitled although not as bad as many Hopefully when they are older and have lived in the real world they will appreciate what they have had. I know i just took my own parents for granted until I was well into my 20's. I read a meme recently that pointed out that this means you have a great relationship...

Anyway I agree, work out with them what their costs are. Allow some for socialising etc but not enough for them to be living in luxury. Pay half of the top up needed and expect their mother to do the same. If they want a more luxurious lifestyle than this then they can get a job to supplement their income. They won't need £600 from you and £600 from their mother each. Perhaps you could pay slightly more than half as they will probably be staying at their mothers in the holidays but that depends on how generous you are feeling. It could be argued that they should be working in the holidays and paying board.

How much is their mum going to contribute?
And IF you do pay let's say £600 a month (to each of them) what is the consequence for your two other dcs?
As your DH rightly said, whatever you do, you need to be able to do it for these two children too.
If that means that between him and his ex they are paying everything for UNi, then you (as you and your DH) need to be able to do that for the younger two dcs. Are you?

If you are, and you are clearly happy to help them with Uni fees etc..., then I think there is little to disagree on.
If not, there is a need to speak to them and agree on how much you can actually spend.
The fact that the younger dcs are 'half' siblings shouldn't matter to these teenagers/ young adults. There is a need to explain that to them and VER clearly too.
The fact you will be consulted is also a given and again there is a need to explain that.
I would also make it VERY clear that gifts etc are coming from you two. It seems that, over time, the default situation has been that you didn't matter and you let it go (eg with Christmas presents) so they are very clearly into that frame of mind. Their overall attitude is coming from an expectation that has been set up a long time ago TBH.

They aren't asking for £600 each. Only one set of maintainence is paid now the op said. Maybe that could be halved between them or something?

Does the Ex have a partner with earnings?
In effect your 2 children will get less. The step children will get £600 Mum + £600 Dad = £1200 per month. Your 2 children will each get £600 from you and DH as there are no step parents. That means the step kids are getting a great deal.

*made up numbers for example!

When I went to Uni, I learnt important life skills such as budgeting my own money. I am still good at it now. A great life skill and makes me appreciate what I have.

YANBU OP, it is joint money and joint decision.
Reading this thread today has been an eye opener. Uni is a lot more expensive than when I went in the 90s. I'd best get saving pronto.