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AIBU?

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Original poster

Which child is more unreasonable

172 replies

80schild · 02/05/2016 21:16

For the past week I have had my boys with me quite a lot. Eldest is 7 (only just). Youngest is 5. Both are quite strong and I would say don't know their own strength.

5 yo has taken to jumping on DS1 back. He does it a lot throughout the day. In his mind he is playing with DS1. DS1 hates it and I have heard him at various points trying to get away from DS2 but DS2 keeps on jumping on his back.

Yesterday in the park it started up. DS2 joined in as his friends were there. However, it finished with 3 boys on DS1. I think he was quite frightened so he bit the first person on top of him on the leg - just so happened to be DS2. DH gave DS1 a huge bollocking about not biting and fair fighting, and said what he did was far worse than what DS2 had done. Personally, I had more sympathy with DS1 having 3 kids the same size as him on top of him.

This evening DS2 jumps on DS1 again. I heard DS1 say 'get off me' which he clearly didn't. DS1 wrestled DS2 to the ground and started twisting his arm behind his back.

I could hear DS2 say 'you're hurting me'. At this point I intervened and went slightly mad and gave both of them a punishment. They both cried.

DH thinks I was too harsh on our youngest, as he had never actually really hurt the eldest and he thinks it is playful.

I just see that DS1 us getting increasingly upset and wants to be left alone.

They have both been given numerous warnings about fighting and what will happen if they seriously hurt one another. A lot of the time I am quite calm about it but today I did go mad. The message just isn't sinking in particularly with DS2.

Was I unfair to DS2 for giving him the same consequence as DS1. I am just feeling it needs to stop otherwise I will end up at A&E. Please give me some sanity.

OP posts:
BarbarianMum · 02/05/2016 21:54

Well here ds2 would be sent to his room the first time and would loose screen time the second time. This has a remarkable effect on his memory.

And I do remind ds1 not to instigate wrestling if he doesn't want ds2 to get out of hand.

Maryz · 02/05/2016 21:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SavoyCabbage · 02/05/2016 21:57

You need to find his currency. His TVs time, doing something special with you, a game.

With my dd it's toys. Once, she pushed her best friend off the top of the slide and I stripped her room of every cuddly toy she owned for a week. She couldn't sleep so she had to cuddle a pair of socks.

LouBlue1507 · 02/05/2016 21:57

Screaming at his wont work, consistency will. Remind him each day that if he does x then x y z will happen and follow through with it!

Ricardian · 02/05/2016 21:57

Clearly we back him up when we are there

There's no evidence of this in anything you've said. Your younger child bullies your older child and you and your husband either do nothing about it or punish the older son for having the temerity to be attacked. It's obvious who's the favourite child, isn't it?

Original poster
80schild · 02/05/2016 22:01

Today was the first time I shouted at him. It is a bit hard when DH thinks this is normal and that DS1 is equally culpable. Also up until recently DS1 didn't mind wrestling his younger brother. He has grown out of it though and DS2 still wants to do it.

OP posts:
EweAreHere · 02/05/2016 22:04

"What consequences would work. Yesterday when I got the truth out of DS2 about the chronology of events he burst into tears. Today when I screamed at him - he burst into tears. It just doesn't seem to stick for that long. DS2 has a really short memory.*

No, he doesn't. He's learned the rules don't apply to him: he gets warnings, not punishments. And when you do actually come down on him (shouting, for example) he's learned that tears (and probably lies about 'not remembering' get him off the hook). I guarantee you that typical 5 year olds know EXACTLY what they're doing and who they're winding up. They know, they know, they know.

He needs consequences. Ignore the tears.

228agreenend · 02/05/2016 22:04

So ds2 is turning on the waterworks when he gets told off. You don't' actually sound like you are enforcing any consequences, just telling him off, and then feeling sympathetic when he started to cry.

If he does it again, put him on getting naughty step, or don't allow him to watch tv, or stop any other favourite activity.

He needs to learn that by disobeying,,th he will face consequences, and you will enforce these consequences. He doen't suffer from short term memory, but is a five year old trying it on (and succeeding).

Leeloo2 · 02/05/2016 22:04

What was ds1 supposed to do with 3 kids leaping on him? I mean honestly? I'd imagine he must have been completely terrified to be trapped and the only part of him free to defend himself was his mouth/ teeth. I'd have done the same. Does your husband really think he could have fought them off any other way?

Replace ds1 (in the equation) with a 7 year old daughter and imagine 3 x 5(?) year old boys jumping on her back to trap her. Would it still be so unreasonable for the girl to be scared and bite to try and escape? Would you expect her to be punished for it? What should she have done instead? Then ask why it's any different for ds1 in that situation.

It sounds like your dh wants ds1 to be 'manly' and play fight. But he clearly isn't into it. At the moment he's trying to say no, and ask his brother to stop but not only is he not being backed up by his parents, but he's been punished for any retaliating.

OP I think that you've been giving mixed messages to both boys and need to sit them down to explain what behaviour you want from them both - and how they should respect people's personal space etc. Personally I think you really need to have zero tolerance approach - let ds2 know he can't do this anymore and what the consequences will be if he does (worst punishment you have as a family, as this is a serious problem). Tell ds1 what he should do if it happens (come and tell you I'd assume).

BlahBlahBlahWhatever · 02/05/2016 22:05

It is hard when you have this age gap, as it's easy to have an older one and a youger one at this age, bit the older one is still young.

GarlicShake · 02/05/2016 22:05

Apart from everything else, you're negating DS1's right of consent. Or DH is, and you're going along with him.

Someone hurts you and doesn't get off when you say "Get off me!" You learn that self-defence is punishable. You have basically learned that everyone can do whatever the hell they like to your body, and you're obliged to suck it up.

Ask DH to think about that for a minute ...

FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 02/05/2016 22:05

I have a four year old and two seven year olds. Quite often the little one can be a little too boisterous. I remove him as immediately as I can, tell him X doesn't like it, don't do it. If I don't get there is time to be honest I mostly tell DS3 that it's his own fault, X shouldn't have him but when he's told no, it means no.

It's tricky but DS3 doesn't do it often as he knows he'll get short shrift!

Idliketobeabutterfly · 02/05/2016 22:05

Why are you still making excuses for DS2?

Ricardian · 02/05/2016 22:06

It is a bit hard when DH thinks this is normal

Poor kid: parents who have a favourite, won't protect him, and make excuses for inaction.

228agreenend · 02/05/2016 22:07

Sorry if you don't feel like you are getting support. However, you are being given strategies to put this situation right.

PirateFairy45 · 02/05/2016 22:07

Ensure youngest doesn't jump on oldests back.

That's YOUR responsibility. Parent.

BYOSnowman · 02/05/2016 22:07

Dd clawed ds face today - i can totally see how he provoked her but what she did was unacceptable. So the first thing she does is start wailing and trying to blame her brother.

We ignore her (which is hard as she is so loud) until she has calmed down and then we discuss it and ds showed her his face etc. Part of the tears are guilt but in the main it is the dawning realisation she is about to get in big trouble.

She lost screen time.

Ricardian · 02/05/2016 22:08

The first thing a parent should do is protect their children from harm. The OP thinks that come second to pandering to her husband's second-hand machismo. Just get three big blokes to give him a kicking and then say that if he were a real man he'd enjoy it.

But in the meantime, how about protecting your child?

Original poster
80schild · 02/05/2016 22:09

No Ricardian - DS2 is definitely not the favoured child. I love my eldest child but the dynamic between them has changed recently and I haven't got to grips with it yet. DS2 is disciplined whenever he does something wrong. In the past they have played together really nicely.

OP posts:
Permanentlyexhausted · 02/05/2016 22:09

He might well be growing out of wanting to wrestle with his younger brother because his brother is getting bigger and it hurts more.

In all seriousness, we have had a broken bone to deal with recently because of a very good natured game that went wrong. Don't think that because it's a game, nobody will get hurt. In your situation, I would be concerned DS2 might do some damage to DS1's back if he carries on.

Ricardian · 02/05/2016 22:11

DS2 is disciplined whenever he does something wrong.

And yet Yesterday in the park it started up. DS2 joined in as his friends were there. However, it finished with 3 boys on DS1. I think he was quite frightened so he bit the first person on top of him on the leg - just so happened to be DS2. DH gave DS1 a huge bollocking about not biting and fair fighting, and said what he did was far worse than what DS2 had done

Could you tell us about this "DS2 is disciplined whenever he does something wrong?" stuff?

SupSlick · 02/05/2016 22:14

Strategy-wise could you make a chart with activities or items that will be taken away if DS2 jumps on his brother/ isn't considerate of DS1's space. Set out clear rules. You choose to do this, you will not have this. Explain boundaries & consent in an age-appropriate way. "DS1 asked you to stop, it wasn't fair that you didn't stop, it made DS1 feel really cross & sad" Tell DS2 if he carries on ignoring requests to stop, it is likely that he will both lose a privilege AND DS1 is likely to retaliate so no one wins.

Then speak to DS1 about you understanding he doesn't like what DS2 is doing & you know he feels that once his requests to stop are ignored, he feels like he has to retaliate. Explain the chart for DS2 & say you will punish DS2 for his behaviour if it happens again. Tell him he can warn DS "if you don't get off me, mum won't let you go swimming" & teach him stock phrases he can say to his brother when he feels uncomfortable.

EweAreHere · 02/05/2016 22:15

I can't get over DH giving DS1 a huge bollocking about fair fighting when it was 3 against 1 and he was trapped under them. Probably struggling to breathe and scared, and no one helping him ... that's a frightening picture.

Poor kiddo.

SoThatHappened · 02/05/2016 22:16

Havent RTFT but neither child is unreasonable ...you are.

As a mother you are totally unreasonable in not being able to control your own child and stop him doing something you know FULL WELL your eldest doesnt like.

TBH if my mum was sitting on her arse letting my younger sibling do what he liked I would bite him too.

Get off your arse and control DS2. It is that simple. I feel sorry for DS1, he probably feels under seige the whole time in his own home. His paretns wont discipline DS2 and he is disciplined when he fights back Poor kid has to do something.

Original poster
80schild · 02/05/2016 22:16

Do you know what reading this I can't take many of you that seriously. You all seem to be such perfect parents who have never had any problems with your DCS because you are all so amazing. Quite clearly you are all either the Messiah himself or a bit deluded. I have had a really shit evening - finished off with an argument with DH. If you are really so concerned report me to social service otherwise I would appreciate it if you could be constructive.

OP posts: