To feel undermined by MIL

[Shouldwebeworried]

Ok, this may well sound silly but just want some genuine perspective.

I am fairly particular about how I dress my DD (almost 3), as in I don't want her covered in pink and "girly" stuff all the time. I have no objection to some of this but hate the idea that she should always be in pink and butterflies (or whatever) just because she is a girl. I want her to like whatever she likes because she likes it, not because she "ought to" 'cause she's a girl.
MIL appears to be of the complete opposite opinion and despite the fact we never dress DD in a super girly way, continually buys those exact type of clothes for her. E.g today she has given DD a pair of velcro sandals which are pink and glittery "because all little girls love that stuff" !

Also a coat that is pink and a cardi, skirt and hoody that are super pink and frilly and girly she showed me that are for impending birthday.

I am grateful she buys DD stuff (I kmow prob not sounding so right now) and it's very generous however, I do feel that as we never dress DD like this and mine and DH's frequent comments that we don't like the over girly stuff or too much pink that MIL is being a little bit underminey? Like she knows best because she had 2 kids 30 yrs ago ffs. Am I just being over sensitive or would anyone else be peeved?

Liquidrevolution's post of 9.48 this morning explains the problem perfectly.

Whatthefreak - Isn't the angst (or sometimes anger) mostly about the expectations that all little girls will love pink and sparkly stuff (as the OP's MiL said "all little girls love that stuff"), to the exclusion of any other colour? And no boys are allowed to wear anything pink or sparkly, for fear of being mistaken for girls, turning out gay or whatever?

And that along with the "you will like pink or else" message go lots of expectations about what is important and appropriate for girls: being pretty, behaving like a princess, not playing in a way that will be difficult or damaging to the frilly/sequinned/tightly cut clothes, i.e. most forms of active or outdoor play etc.

Boys clothes are cut and coloured for freedom of movement and active play - baggier shorts and trousers, looser t-shirts which cover more skin, fewer embellishments which will come off when caught on trees, darker colours which don't show mud stains, sandals with soles which grip and thicker straps so they stay on kids' feet etc etc.

I didn't mind my daughter choosing to wear pink sometimes, but I did/do mind her being expected to like pink and behave in a pink, sparkly way just because she is a girl - it is not a hard-wired, biological thing.

I always take dresses back if I can, because my crawler gets her knees caught on them and faceplants. I swap for jersey leggings and tops - in bright colours if possible as she loves oranges and they stain all her collars bright yellow if they're pale.
I do think pale clothes that can be ruined easily are about being passive and pretty - as that's what you have to do to keep them nice.

My mum just loves buying things for DD, she gets all the enjoyment out of choosing but is less bothered about the practicalities of them (or indeed if they're the right size). I just return and swap for something else as it doesn't take away from her enjoyment of purchasing them in the first place.

MIL loves to knit stuff in dubious pink colours. I keep them at the back of the wardrobe and charity shop them when they're too small. It's a shame as she spends ages knitting them but we've repeatedly asked for white/grey etc that go with everything.

It's a gift, not a requirement your child wears it

What does your DD think? If she likes these clothes then it's up to her. My DD has had very strong opinions about her clothes since she was about 2yo and always goes for pink, sparkly, lacey stuff I would never chose for her. Today she announced she does not want to wear trousers anymore as they are not colorful enough. If your DD dislikes the clothes just make them gradually disappear. If she doesn't care then neither should you and you should dress her in any of the clothes she has.

Disclaimer: I have been solely tested to stick an "I dress myself" sign on DD, she has been known to sport dots and stripes and floral, all in different colour combinations, with a bow and a tiara thrown in top for good measure!

Liquid you understand exactly where I am coming from with my "problem" with pink. Though actually I think I dislike the beige and peach stuff more just 'cause I like bright colours best and they're a bit insipid.

Trouble is with DD assessing whether she likes something is quite hard as she is very swayed bg how things are presented to her so MIL making a big song and dance and going on and on about how pretty the item is and how beautiful DD looks in it, is enough to persuade her she loves said thing.

My op was to see if my reaction of feeling undermined by MIL was U and I think the conclusion is pretty much YES! Haha.
I find these kind of discussions really interesting and helps me examine my attitude as much as anything.

I think maybe some posters have the impression that I hate all girly stuff and DD is only allowed either gender neutral or "boy" things to play with and wear. This is not the case. She has a range of stuff from dolls house to my little ponies to dinosaurs and building blocks (normal multicoloured ones not "special" girly pink ones ffs!)

She spends most of her time in skirts because she loves wearing "skirties".

I just don’t want her to get overwhelmed by the uber feminine stuff and think she ought to like it just because she is a girl. Just as if I had a boy I wouldn't want him to feel excluded from liking glitter or that he had to go round dressed permanently in tractors.
Which is the attitude I feel from MIL.

I was very happy today that I found in Next a tunic dress for DD with dinosaurs on! Virtually unheard of in a high street shop

exexpat non of my girls read the memo that said you couldn't get muddy or be active in pink clothes. They were far too busy doing what they were doing.

It's nice to have a choice though - however we are very particular about colour in this house. Salmon pink and fuschia are just not the same colour at all, and to us are as different as say brown and orange.

Some tribes do not see a difference between blue and green I believe, it's not that they are colour blind, they just have one word that covers a range of colours how we would see them.

I would be frustrated and I feel lucky me mil asked which makes/styles we liked and then bought those (bless her almost to the letter!)

I honestly don't get how people are so arsed about clothes & sorry but I would feel undermined if someone took my child for a haircut, fed my child something I asked them not to or stepped in while I was telling them off or sticking to a routine,
Not them going to the effort of buying my child a present that I'm not that fussed about the colour of.
I would just be grateful someone was generous & kind enough to get my little one a gift.
Some kids / parents don't have the luxury of being picky about colour.

I'm guessing I'm going to get howled down as an extremist for this post, but hey-ho.

Gender stereotyping is a bit on my mind at the moment, having been on another, very different from this thread, thread earlier today - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2628744-Skirt-day-marked-her-transition-to-life-as-a-girl?msgid=60842278

Pink glittery butterfly and fairy-laden clothing shouldn't be a problem, but increasingly I think it is, because of the societal baggage it carries. It is completely aimed at girls, stereotyping them and insidiously telling them what they should be, gaining praise from grandma for looking girly, and behaving girly. I didn't used to think this would be a long-term issue, but now - I'm not so sure.

While the little girl conforms to stereotype she will be diddled into fitting herself into the traditional female role - you know, doing all the housework while being paid less for her full-time job than her male colleagues. Bed enough, but not the worst outcome.

What is she stops conforming? Because damned few of fully conform to the stereotype. It's a myth, a construct, a marketing ploy. What if, as she gets older, she gets interested in dinosaurs or cars or football or (gulp) mathematics? What if grandma is less than flattering about her becoming 'less girly'? The stereotypes are pushed so very strongly these days (because hey, clothes to sell!), so assumed to be the only way to be, these polar opposite stereotypes of girl and boy, that there is a presumption almost that if a child does not fully conform to one of the stereotypes then maybe there's something wrong with the child, something that needs fixed. (The truth of course is that the rigid stereotypes are wrong but somehow there's not so much questioning going on there.) What if, worst case scenario, the child starts to feel she is 'wrong' somehow?

I think we should be more aware of the environment we create for our children to grow in. Be aware that if they are given approval for certain behaviours (e.g. choosing to wear pink) then we reinforce that behaviour. But that at some point grandma's approval is not enough to override personal preferences, and whilst I would hope that would just mean they'd choose to wear whatever colour they preferred, it could mean they question what is wrong with them that they don't want to wear pink .

Sorry if my thoughts on the matter are a little incoherent, I'm still pondering it all.

And that would be equally wrong as being praised for not looking girly.

Hahaha you have a different breed of girl to mine. By nearly 3 they wore what they wanted pink glittery shit life's too short for battles over clothes so yabu.

FWIW my 7 year old is now a pink and princess hater and my 4 year old is starting to go the same way. I don't get the angst around it personally.

gaining praise from grandma for looking girly, and behaving girly.

So in which case grandma is the problem not a bit of glitter.

At 18 months DD decided she would only wear pink a lot of the time and so she went out in swathes of unmatching pink. She chose what she would and wouldnt wear from a very young age - her first real word was "shoe". Her little girl tastes were frilly and pink and sparkly and glitter laden. She played with tractors and diggers and dolls.
Now she is almost 8, she loves dolls and skipping, plays rugby, goes to judo and ballet/tap. When I told her the other day that some parents don't allow their girls to play football, she was flabbergasted.
From an outsider looking in, any parent or grandparent, who is trying to control what their child wears or is allowed to do or play with is artificially controlling their desires. Op I'm glad you've thought about what other posters have said about letting your DD wear these items. The same cannot be said about some of the posters, who are as a result are doing exactly the same as your mil just in reverse. It is easy to talk to your DD and tell her that it's ok she can do/play/wear anything she likes. This will help shape her identity far better than any artificial controls.

And had I given birth to a boy, he would have been allowed to wear princess dresses if he had so desired. Dds little boy friends had pushchairs and dollies. Again, it's all about exploration.

FWIW my 7 year old is now a pink and princess hater and my 4 year old is starting to go the same way. I don't get the angst around it personally.

But your girls now HATE it .... Why do they hate it? What's changed?

My MIL does this. Every scrap of clothes she has ever bought for DD has been pink, right down to vests and pajamas. 'All little girls love pink' she says. I do think she does it to wind me up a bit as I've been vocal in the past about feeling very when I see little girls clad head to toe in pink, frilly stuff.

It doesn't bother me though. I just put the pink stuff on DD now and again and mix it up with other colours. She has barely any pink clothes apart from what MIL gets her so it doesn't have a big impact.

DD is 18 months by the way so I still choose her clothes. Once she's old enough she will pick out her own stuff I assume. If she turns into a pink-crazed princessy girl I will be surprised because I was never like that myself but I don't plan to make a big deal out of it either way. They all go through phases.

But your girls now HATE it .... Why do they hate it? What's changed?

One word Dragons. The two dont go together

Fuck me! Who has these girls who allow you to choose their clothes?

By 3 both dds were choosing and wearing their desired clothes and simply refused to wear what they didn't like. Of course we insisted it was weather appropriate but apart from that we let them get on.

Seriously clothes arnt worth the angst and certainly not worth alienating your mil! Let your ds pick what she likes and move on.

My teen dds wear all types of clothes love makeup and play rugby. Clothes don't matter.

tobysmum my DD also 7 says she hates pink, hates her pink bedroom. Everything is a phase and she's way past the princess dress, frilly pink skirt phase. In society today, the fear seems pervasive that if we do something wrong, our girls will grow up believing themselves to be less than equal to males. Talking to our children, giving them self esteem, treating them as future adults is the answer and no one would tell an adult what to wear unless they were very controlling themselves. My rule with DD when she was old enough to get it was she could wear whatever she wanted as long as it was practical for the event. I have genuinely hated some of her clothes, in particular a dress, which she wore almost constantly for 3 months when she was 5. I gritted my teeth and washed it overnight ready for the next day.

Onlyican say it like it is and definitely what I was thinking. The invasion of the stepford children.

DD also 7 says she hates pink, hates her pink bedroom.

Why though?

What's changed?

Were they allowed /not allowed pink?

Why the hate?

By 3 both dds were choosing and wearing their desired clothes and simply refused to wear what they didn't like.

And this - they have to have a selection to make that choice no?

Cody read my posts above. She wore whatever she wanted. She wore one dress for three fucking months solid and not only did I have to organise and constantly wash it but had to see her in it almost every day, of course I got to hate it. I loved it when I first bought it for her. Sorry your questions are sounding very bizarre and goady.