To think MIL is not racist....but so f*cking ignorant & shouldn't be around DCs

[rockacrybaby]

I have a very mixed family but am more or less black. Coffee coloured. DH is white. Race has never been an issue on either side but his damn mother keeps on saying the most infuriating things and DH and FIL keeps on shrugging it off as "she's just from a different time/ it's just silly ignorance"

When I think about what my family has been through I just cannot dismiss it as such. I've done the whole "Oh come on" polite speech but she just laughs me off as being defensive: "Oh I don't mean you, you're different"

Examples:

On DD1 when she was just born: "Oh, she's beautiful - not even as dark as I expected."

A conversation about an advert urging people to foster BAME kids: "Yes well of course more of them are in the system they just don't value family as much as other people do they?"

On first meeting me : "Oh you're quite well spoken"

On me straightening DD1s hair as a one off for a special occasion: "Her hair is so much prettier like this - so much less unruly"

On DD saying "I'm from Jamaica!" because her nanna is from there and we just got back from a trip and she's proud of her mixed heritage : "Oh but not that much darling"

On black lives matter : "Why are they so angry? If you behave like a hooligan you will be treated as such"

It really upsets me and I don't want my DCs hearing this shit. Yes their dad is white but they are still people of colour and I don't want them growing up hearing the shit I heard which made me feel inferior at times.....from their own damn grandma!!!

I don't even want them thinking about bloody race but it's like she cant help herself from making comments which subtly remind them that they are different from their blond haired blue eyes cousins. They are subtle and not all the time but enough to plant a seed.

Told DH MIL's comments aren't getting better and I'd I refuse to fight with her about it. I've addressed her comments nicely several times and she just laughs me off. DH is being useless. Seems to think that because she's not in the KKK its all petty.

I don't know what to do.

LitteRedSparkle
No. I make sure DD loves every part of herself. And I do check MIL - just not aggressively to avoid tension. It's hardly appropriate to start an argument about race in front of DD so I tread carefully. As previously mentioned DH has been telling DD nana is mad and her hair is gorgeous and her skin is beautiful etc etc etc etc

Yes, she's racist. And pretending not to be.

Your MIL is a racist
I'm so sorry, that's such a difficult situation to be in, when it's close family.
This kind of racism, where they "like" you but still inherently regard you as "other", inferior is more difficult to handle than overt namecalling.
However, they don't really like you - or your DC - so your DH needs to step up and priotitise his vulnerable DC before his racist mum.

Your DC deserve better than learning that their own grandma downgrades them as the "other", not as good as her white GC.
Expressions like "playing the race card" is often used when racists object to being called out for expressing their racism. Even on Mumsnet.

Don't let her off by excusing racism as different generational attitudes:
I'm mixed race and when my Arab mum came to the UK in 1949 she was especially welcomed into the family by my grandma.
The entire British side of my family have always been supportive, even though open racism was widespread in British society until at least the 1970s - e.g. I was subjected to open racist abuse at school in the 1960s by both pupils & one teacher.

Your DC may face racism elsewhere later, but you & your DH should ensure that at least the family is a safe space for them.

Call out a racist and the first thing they say ''oh, but I've got black friends'' !! bull shit.

I could go on but it's such a lovely Sunday morning that I really can't be bothered

Stay strong rock. If it creates a drama, this is what needs to happen. You cannot hold everything together for fear of creating a drama. And it will be how everyone else handles that drama because your job is to protect your child from this behaviour. My mother sounds very similar to your mil, she makes the same sort of derogatory comments about non whites. But then my dh is inferior in her eyes because he's foreign but then to her so are Welsh, Scottish, northerners, people who didn't receive the same education as her..... In fact anyone, who isn't her or her wonderful son. Dh and I laugh about the way she thinks about him but I don't find the other things she says funny at all. With regard to your mil, in her eyes, anyone who isn't her or perhaps her DS is probably inferior to her anyway so there's no way to "win" against this kind of very strange belief.

My mother is a narcissist and I have gone reduced contact. I let terrible behaviour toward me slide for years. I occasionally blew a fuse and was made to feel like I was the problem and a crazy person. I finally confronted some awful behaviour because she started saying terrible things about my DD - she and her golden boy son had gossiped about my DD and decided she'd done some unspeakable stuff (rubbish), wasn't going to turn out well, threatened to smack her etc. I didn't speak to her for three weeks then called her to ask for an apology but just for that one specific thing. I was very calm and didn't engage in all of the mud throwing. I didn't get an apology so I simply said that if there was no apology, there was nothing more to be said, I loved her and ended the conversation. I then ignored her for another two months. In all this time, she didn't call me, I suspect it's because she had no idea how to handle the situation. The stalemate came to an end as it was Mother's Day and I sent a present but no card (I hate Mother's Day cards with all the bullshit language) and DD sent a card just from her. The relief in her voice when I talked to her was palpable. This coincided with my mother finally sending me a short letter, it was a back handed apology really but it will have cost her dearly. Mother learnt a massive lesson earlier this year and probably the only one she will ever learn. And there was no drama because when I spoke to her about what she had said, I refused to buy into it anymore and I refused to engage or defend myself to her wild and ridiculous accusations.

If you do not want drama, can I suggest your dh waits until he has no anger and say things factually and simply. To stay calm and come back to the same salient point each time. To know when to disengage. My mother is an outright narcissist with the emotional age of a 2 or 3 year old so if it is possible with her, it will most likely be possible with your mil.

I'm getting DD and DS ready for lunch
They will go with their cousins for a sleepover for bank holiday (thank god I was going mad but that's another post) and we will stay behind and have "the chat" with MIL and FIL. FIL will be useless poor thing. He just wants to enjoy his grandkids and play golf. Doesn't even watch the news. I think he just spaces out when it comes to MIL.

Janecc good points made there. Should we leave it??? Race issues are such a tricky one when you have a mixed family. Argh. It's so sad we were in Jamaica for 5 weeks and no one batted an eyelid at me and DH or made any comments. My family make silly comments like OOOOOH DI ENGLISH BWOY CAN DANCE!!! But it's seriously out of love and affection.

Good luck rocka

I do hate the "from a different time" excuse. If this woman is 65, it is certainly the case that she has spent the vast majority of her life in a society in which it is axiomatic that racism is not acceptable. She is not doing this because she doesn't know better, she's doing it because she chooses to.

Exacty Augusta. She is only 65 and knows exactly how to behave.

Your Mil is othering you and the children and its racist you are fine they are not you have slotted into her ideal of a nice white family and are acceptable yet she comments about your dds mixed race hair and jamacian granny which is such a shame she is like this I dont buy this of her time either because it wasnt ok then either.

I'm glad you're going to have the talk. This kind of insidious racism is so dangerous. It chips away at your self esteem.

Your children should know that they are beautiful and clever and kind. Full stop. Not beautiful and clever and kind in spite of their mixed heritage.

Yes, that's racist. I'm not adding anything new to the debate, but just adding further weight.

Good luck Rock.

This is why I wondered whether you should point out her (racist) behaviour is derogatory? I don't think she believes that she is racist but if you point out she has said something that is derogatory because you have found it critical & disrespectful then she can't deny it - well she can try and you can put her straight at why that comment is unacceptable?

I find it difficult/worry that I say the wrong thing (in lots of situations tbf) and would rather have someone explain to me why?

I wouldn't leave it. I would pull her up on the next really bad thing she says or does and focus specifically on that. Very little time will have lapsed between what was said and your and dhs response and this will have the maximum impact. If you talk in general about what she has said in the past, it will dilute the message. I would also choose something specifically said about DD, as you have said she finds some of her grandmothers comments hurtful. I would also use this as your basis for teaching your DD about racism. Targeted and specific. Very much the message to DD and to mil: We love the person and reject the behaviour.

"Gently". She is racist OP and you KNOW this. My son is mixed race and there is no way on earth he would visit anyone who spoke of him like that. I took him to visit my elderly grand dad in sweden when he was a baby and my grand dad burst out "why has no one told me that this child is black". We made our excuses and left, not seen him since.

You need to step up, your dh does too. Sending a hug

Also I wouldn't talk in terms of racism. Calling a white middle class woman racist will only shut the conversation down. It's seen as a big insult (even though true in this instance). I would talk in terms of feelings. And also with you DD, if she is young, I would talk about how people say mean things about people being fat or thin or tall or short or has a different colour skin than them so all bigoted behaviour is seen as inappropriate. This way she shouldn't feel that it's all about her and her skin colour or hair. As I said, if your DD is old enough I would tell your hee what you are doing to tackle it because what her grandma said was mean and a very strange thing to say. Mine was 7.5 when I finally crossed grandma for saying shit about my DD and she knows everything that was said about her by my mother and brother. She doesn't love grandma any less but she's protected and can roll her eyes at grandmas crap and come to me if anything bad is said.

She is racist and you must be a saint for putting up with it.

Age is no excuse, my dad is going on for 80, he was brought up in a different age when the term 'coloured' was used and thought of as polite, he knows it's outdated and wouldn't say it now. We are also probably the whitest family so it's not as though it's something that he has been at the forefront of his mind, sorry that sounds off, not expressing myself very well, but my dad would be mortified if he said anything that could be considered racist.

If an old man with s white family and mainly white friends and neighbours knows this then you MIL is racist and down right rude.

At home.
Got there, had a very light Sunday lunch ( 3 scallops on a bed of salad which I didn't eat as I'm vegan and she fucking knows this. Followed by a cup plate of pasta which took 1 minute to eat )
SIL AND BIL were quite eager to leave with the kids (grandma's house is not fun) and had a film booked anyway.
Then there were 4
Convo went like this as far as I can remember it's obviously not verbatim but -
Me: can we all have a chat? There's just a couple of things id like to discuss
MIL: of course darling everything okay?
Me : I'm just concerned about some recent and not so recent comments you've made, and just want to clarify what you meant, especially with me needing to really watch what DD is exposed to as she gets older.
MIL: Oh I hope you aren't going to talk about any black stuff I honestly don't care and won't hear any of it.
DH: Mum, I'm sorry but you're going to have to listen for once.
Me: I just feel like your comments regarding anything black about DD are exclusively negative and racist. I can let the black lives matter debate we had a few weeks back slip for now, but what did you mean when you called DDs natural hair unruly and said the straight version was nicer ?
DH: were you suggesting afro hair is inferior to straight hair ?
MIL: I won't be bombarded
Me: please, what did you mean
MIL: so what if I feel straight hair is pretty ??? If she was white and had that type of hair id still say it.
DH: But she isn't white mum, and she was that hair because of her black side. It's beautiful.
MIL: Well, each to their own I still love my grandchildren
Me: do you take issue with having black grand children and having a black FIL
MIL: you're here in my home aren't you ? I went to the wedding didn't I?

I can't recite it word for word but after she said that DH went nuts. I thought it would be me doing the shouting but he just absolutely lost it. Said he felt cheated and can't believe his mother is a bigot as she raised him to respect everyone. She basically said blatant violent racism is what uneducated common people do but she sees no problem in making.comments which are true. Black people are usually loud, they usually dont speak properly and DDS hair is unruly but so what? Can't she think and say that without being racist.
I just got up and left after she said "black people are usually loud" and went to the car. DH followed shortly after fuming and quite emotional. FIL looked mortified. I don't even want to ask him what was said when I left. Drove home in silence as I didn't want to rub salt in his you're mum is racist wound.
FFS.
From us entering the house everything went down in literally an hour. DH is on the phone to BIL in Manchester as MIL just called him hysterical saying I've played the race card and am turning her son away from her. I just went into the other room. Feel sick. So sick.

H, rock, I've just read this all. Well done for having the conversation, and wl done to your DH. As he said, it's upsetting realising our parents have such terrible traits. I'm so sorry for the outcome though, but at least you did the right thing

Is BIL supportive?

Oh rock, I'm so sorry. Please me your DH stepped up though.

Your MIL needs to check her privilege and listen to what you are telling her about how she is making you feel. She can't just silence you and wave this away. Sounds like your FIL needs to step up too.

I really hope that she offers you and DH an apology and changes her ways, but I would brace yourself for nothing changing. If you do end up with having no or limited contact, do not beat yourself up- you're doing the right thing to protect your family

That should be "pleased your DH stepped up though"

I'm sorry, it sounds so hard but I'm glad your husband went mental with her. She is racist and it needs to be confronted. I am sorry for the hurtful things she said.They are stupid stereotypes, but her behaviour is hurtful. I think her issues beneath what she said are massive. It is her prolem but it needed confronting. You should not have to tolerate this shit from anyone, least of all family. She is trying to blame you rather than taking responsibility for her racist crap and having a bloody good look at herself. It is her behaviour that will turn her son away from her. He is your husband and absolutely right to stand beside you on this.You have done NOTHING wrong. You have stood up fo your child and yourself. It's not your fault she's such a knob.

Please try to remain as calmas you can and know you are not causing trouble. You are completely and utterly in the right and very brave to challenge her.

BILs and SILs are reluctant to call their own mother racist after having quite a normal and balanced up bringing. They do however condemn her comments.
BIL who took kids to the cinema has always gone out with women of all different colours and nearly got engaged to a mixed raced woman but she never met the mum. He says if she doesn't apologise, come clean about what she really thinks and then agrees to counselling he will disown her. He sees racism as the most disgusting thing ever. He's travelled quite a bit and has seen all sorts.

Can you not just have a really frank discussion with her. Example that the conversation needs to happen now before it destroys the relationship with her, you and and gc