To think MIL is not racist....but so f*cking ignorant & shouldn't be around DCs

[rockacrybaby]

I have a very mixed family but am more or less black. Coffee coloured. DH is white. Race has never been an issue on either side but his damn mother keeps on saying the most infuriating things and DH and FIL keeps on shrugging it off as "she's just from a different time/ it's just silly ignorance"

When I think about what my family has been through I just cannot dismiss it as such. I've done the whole "Oh come on" polite speech but she just laughs me off as being defensive: "Oh I don't mean you, you're different"

Examples:

On DD1 when she was just born: "Oh, she's beautiful - not even as dark as I expected."

A conversation about an advert urging people to foster BAME kids: "Yes well of course more of them are in the system they just don't value family as much as other people do they?"

On first meeting me : "Oh you're quite well spoken"

On me straightening DD1s hair as a one off for a special occasion: "Her hair is so much prettier like this - so much less unruly"

On DD saying "I'm from Jamaica!" because her nanna is from there and we just got back from a trip and she's proud of her mixed heritage : "Oh but not that much darling"

On black lives matter : "Why are they so angry? If you behave like a hooligan you will be treated as such"

It really upsets me and I don't want my DCs hearing this shit. Yes their dad is white but they are still people of colour and I don't want them growing up hearing the shit I heard which made me feel inferior at times.....from their own damn grandma!!!

I don't even want them thinking about bloody race but it's like she cant help herself from making comments which subtly remind them that they are different from their blond haired blue eyes cousins. They are subtle and not all the time but enough to plant a seed.

Told DH MIL's comments aren't getting better and I'd I refuse to fight with her about it. I've addressed her comments nicely several times and she just laughs me off. DH is being useless. Seems to think that because she's not in the KKK its all petty.

I don't know what to do.

What does your DH think about the comments his mum makes about his own children ?

I don't want to push DH on this right now and would rather take control of the situation. I've told him my intention to stop contact if I hear one more comment. He didn't object but slightly defended. I think he basically never heard his mum make these comments until I came along and he's in shock. He is by no means the type to bury his head in the sand and I think he's adjusting to a very shocking truth.

Surely your dh has noticed that his mum is a racist?

I'd find this very hard. Its not good for your DC to be around.

What does your DH say? We are a mixed race family and my DH's mum (black) said a few dodgy things early on after our first child was born.

She has that real, old school 'shade-ism' thing going on and said 'oh its good he is so fair skinned, but shame he has such a broad nose', and that she 'thought he would have better hair,' being as he was white.

I was pissed off...but DH was furious and put her in her place immediately. She has never said anything like it again.

Why doesn't your DH challenge it??

It is difficult because there is definitely a generational thing going on and you can't ignore it entirely (I have shocking memories of my "non racist" gran saying about my ex "oh he's dark isn't he" to his face)? However, she should be more respectful and aware of the effects of her continual comments.

Yes, DH needs to tackle this, but more than him, YOU do. It makes me kind of that someone has said your DH needs to say something. If she says anything else, never mind the MN 'Did you mean to be so rude?' try the 'Do you realise howfucking racist you are?'

*half white

Yes without doubt she is being racist.

In the same way you get casual sexism, this is 'casual' racism.

She is uncomfortable with both your and her GC's racial heritage and her comments suggest that they only way she has managed to square it in her own mind is that you are 'almost as good as being white' so not like those 'real foreigners' she is being racist about.

No doubt she expects you to be flattered that you and the GC are accepted in her family and she feels she is doing you a favour.

Call her out on it every single time and tell your DH to grow a pair, he is the one who should be telling her that her comments are totally unacceptable.

Btw I am white and probably older than your MIL and have met many people in my time just like her. You can be sure that what she says when you are not there is much worse.

Eminado He thinks they are vile but see's it as cringey ignorance. If anyone else said it they'd get a punch in the face. We've never ever had one stare or one negative experience as a mixed raced couple but he abhors racism and is quick to point it out - so why not with his own damn mother? It's like he is trying to make himself believe its ignorance because to be honest when you have a black wife and brown kids accepting your own mother is racist is essentially disowning her.

Sorry op but she does sound rather racist.
Plain ignorance doesn't explain thinking black people are "hooligans"

I would challenge it, but in a way that's not "angry".
Though no where the same, my MiL is an avid Daily Mail reader, and will just repeat stories as fact, without thought or further reading.
So I counter it with fact.
So MiL "Immigrants get mansions and thousands of pounds"
Me: "Actually they get x amount and are often stuck in horrific places, with the threat of deportation hanging over them" (my mum is a SW dealing with refugees!)
MiL:

So for example on the Jamaica comment "it's an important part of DCs heritage, just as your Irish/East End/ British heritage is important to you"
Or on the frankly racist comment about hooligans....
"Sooooo, black people fighting for their right to not be shot by police are "hooligans", but the EDL/BNP/KKK are ok yeah?"

YANBU - but she is a racist.You can be a racist and still love your grandchildren in the same way you can be a misogynist and have a wife.

Your DH really needs to step up and tell her to knock it off.

But, on a side note, I don't think it's very helpful of other posters to insinuate or suggest things that MIL COULD be saying about OP behind her back. You have never met her, so don't have any idea. Betting that the MIL is saying stuff behind her back, and guessing what it could be, will just breed resentment and discontent.

My husband and I (and therefore our kids) are so white we're nearly translucent and I wouldn't allow their grandmothers to talk like that in front of then. She is a racist and what she is saying is unacceptable regardless of whether or not you are within earshot. Indeed I would wonder whether what you hear is actually the 'moderated version'.

He could both accept that his mother is a racist (because she definitely is, in that she stereotypes people according to their race, even if she allows that you and her go don't confirm to the stereotype), and allow that she not evil. Her racism can be due to ignorance rather than evil, but calling it anything other than racism doesn't help to educate her out of it.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. Her words and behaviour sound racist to me. When I read your introductory sentence I thought she was maybe using outdated language like 'coloured' but she is implying that black people value family less and that dark skin and natural hair is ugly?! Judging black people for standing up for their civil rights? Actively trying to deny your daughter's heritage? I would be fuming!

That said, labelling someone as 'a racist' tends to build up walls and barriers - it can be more productive to label her words and actions as such. Could this help broach the subject with your husband. You love his mum but some things she says sound racist? Could you ask your husband what he would say if your daughter came back from school and told him a teacher or another parent had said something like that? Maybe going from the angle of 'How can we teach her to be proud of her heritage and identity and not be bullied when her own granny does it?'

You absolutely would not be unreasonable to reduce contact with her while she behaves in this way.

Btw racism and ignorance are actually synomous is this context.

It sounds like she sees you and her grandchildren as 'exceptional' because she loves you all, but it does seem as if she has quite deeply ingrained ways of thinking about racial difference in general.

I understand it must be hard to call her on it, as she is not being overtly malicious, it may well be borne of ignorance, but nonetheless it is insidious and, like you say, could be damaging to your daughters' self esteem.

I agree with others that your dh needs to make it clear he finds it unacceptable. I think if he needs to take a gentle, but firm approach at first then fine, but if it continues in spite of this...I feel for you. Families are difficult, but you have to go with your instincts.

Oh and second everyone else saying make your DH grow a pair.
ffs, it's attitudes that need challenging, and letting it go as ignorance isn't helpful. Ignorance is not understanding, prejudice is assuming and stereotyping, they are doing that in spades!!

She is racist, but you might have more luck getting your DH on side if you describe it as 'rude'. It sounds like he has a blind spot when it comes to his mum.

I am mixed race. i get the 'oh not you.' often. Its Bullshit. Your MIL is being racist by refusing to acknowledge your DCs wonderful heritage and your DH needs talking to.
On the subject; my two year old daughter looked at me the other day and said 'you black mummy. I'm White' no idea where she has got this from. If it was an observation of hers she'd have said brown and pink. Pretty pissed off someone has been speaking to her or around her about this. Yanbu op x

Sophia1984 - That said, labelling someone as 'a racist' tends to build up walls and barriers

Oh and I often get asked if I am sure she's mine by strangers even, as she is basically Arian and I am brown skin hair and eyes. Bloody infuriating. People can be dicks and it can be very hurtful. No real advice except you sound confident, in tune with and proud of your heritage-that will instill real confidence in your children despite others ignorant comments x

My sister married a black man and my parents never had an issue with it. However, they did refer to the children as half casts etc and other questionable things. I think he may have been the only black person they have ever talked to. I mean they believe all of Africa is a baron land with people living in mud huts. They were just so ignorant. We started to have debates and challenge their views, open their minds to the concept of white privilege, various forms of racism, why black lives matter campaign is important. They started to realise how ignorant they had been. They just didn't know, some people just live in their simple lives and never think critically. Is there anyway you can begin to educate them?

WellieWanger Wellie growing up did you get spoken to about being brown and the potential issues you may encounter? Just curious. Its one thing to have that kind of talk when both parents are ethnic but when one parent is white it may be a little more uncomfortable. I don't want to have a "them" and "us" sounding convo with DCs.
One day we will have to talk about race and the things they may encounter. Probably before secondary school.
DS is 2 and DD is 4.
DS and I will 100% have to have a talk and my mum said to wait until there is context with DD. I agree.

Awful, just awful.

I can't stand the 'im not a racist...but' crap.

And the 'different generation' card is a bag of wank too. My grandparents are in their 80's and know damn well that these kind of comments are unacceptable. Those poor kids...

Your dh is been a grade A prick op, he needs to tell his mother to stop it with these comments before the dcs start to notice.

WellieWanger I'm "light skinned" black and both DCs are exactly my colour with slightly looser curl pattern so I don't get that. I think MIL is disappointed they took after me.