Have labour missed an opportunity for not voting Andy Burnham as leader

[Slutbucket]

Not a corbyn hater I like him and think he is very principled in his ideology. However you see how Andy Burnham has conducted himself in the last week and challenged the Hillsborough enquiries and I can't help but think what if? He has showed that he is an excellent constituency MP, he's had experience as Secretary of State and I think he wouldn't be as divisive.

I do think that, given the right wing press, there needs to be a massive drive to use social media in an organised way.

ZenNudist the media sets it's agenda. There's a thread on MN about the goverment's legal defeat over workfare, asking why it's not gaining traction in the press as a story.
The answer to that lies in what agendas a right-wing press set.
I do wonder what alternatives social media might present.

By how many votes

If they all voted in a general election it would make very little difference

and many who voted for JC are disappointed in him

And then there are those who have always voted labour who would never vote for him in a general election

JC will never be pm (this weeks events, his questionable choice of keeping those close around him,
his sharing of platforms) doubt he will be leading the party this time next year

Maybe not New Labour but people have moved to the centre of politics grass roots voters to rely on is a thing of the past and really being told what best for the ordinary people as I live like them by some privileged mc lefty just does not connect with many

Enthusiasm Disturbed.

Your posts show you have no idea how the murky underbelly of political mechanisms work. Read up on the dead cat strategy. Then read Orwell.

The political party that has Murdoch on their side wins the election. See British politics 1979-present day.

I pity those who take the Murdoch press as gospel.

Labour party membership does not reflect the 'person in the street'. If it did, we'd have a Labour government right now with Miliband in power - which I heartily wish had happened and which wasn't far away. People saying the country is crying out for more left-wing policies never satisfactorily explain then why the voters who voted Tory in 2015 instead of Labour will somehow decide Labour under Corbyn is now a better alternative. I don't buy the 'all the non voters of 2015 will come out and embrace Labour now' argument at all. Though as I and others have said, we'll see how that stance is coming along next week.

Ghost.not saying the press has no influence but it's a chicken and egg matter. Murdoch likes to back the winning side. And there are studies going back to the 1940s, when the press had fewer rivals, that show mass media influence to be weaker than expected.

Oh please best get in touch with JC camp perhaps they can inform the public of this to win voters over

I am just not fooled by the supposedly man of integrity that JC presents himself as

And obviously I am not the only one

He is leading the wrong party but what kudos would he hold being a member of the Labour Socialist Party he certainly wouldn't have a career as an mp

Milliband courted Murdoch. JC has no interest in courting Murdoch. Corbyn's policies are socialist and counter to Murdoch's neo liberalism.

Blair courted (and won) Mudoch's support and as a result we ended up with New Labour, full of free market, Thatcherite ideology. It cannot be democratic for one man (Murdoch) to wield so much power and influence.

Those who do not get Murdoch's support end up being character assassinated - see Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, Ed Milliband and now Corbyn.

We've had 30 years of Murdoch right wing brain washing you see it in MN poster comments about "benefit scroungers", "magic money trees", "Labour broke the economy". It goes on and on but it is not democratic and it is not healthy political discourse.

I get my news from radio 4 and the guardian. Yes the Tory government aren't getting a hard enough time for making some very bad decisions coupled with outlandish infighting over Europe. Labour are not acting in opposition to the Tories but to each other.

Yes we know that

People are not so foolish to think the press have no influence

I do not believe people really believed we are all in it together but they saw a leader that felt they had more confidence in I cringed watching EM a few weeks before the election I thought we could win but then something changed he didn't seem so confident and people lost any confidence they might have had in him that might have swayed them to vote labour

And people views are not always so black and white. We have a problem with people choosing to live off benefits, having large families and not taking responsibility, we are going into the fourth generation of this and it angers people, areas of the country where immigration has changed the community and not always in a positive way express those views you will often be shouted down this impacts the wc
more than the mc yet other parties have listened and taken on board their concerns (to support their own agenda) no one better than Nigel Farage. Labour lost voters to UKIP not the tories

Enthusiasm first you said 'There is no appetite for New Labour from the person on the street' but then you've said the public is brainwashed into not voting for any alternatives such as Corbyn. Which is it?

No it wasn't me that said that

Yes UKIP did take votes from Labour. It will again as I have been told by Labour voters they are scared of job security due to being undercut by people from abroad. People were almost scared to tell me they are scared of terrorism from certain communities. They feel Labour won't protect them from these fears.

I spoke about this at my CLP and the fears are ignored and dismissed.

The media built up UKIP before they even had any MP's because the media decided the political narrative should be EU/immigration as opposed to building up say, The Green party and deciding the narrative should be environmental concerns. It is not democratic to let a handful of media moguls decide what the conversation should be.

We've been hearing about "benefits scroungers" for decades yet all I see is ordinary people being punished. The real scroungers will continue to scrounge regardless of Daily Mail hand wringing.

I wonder how people who voted Tory based on campaigns such as "we'll cut the deficit not the NHS" feel now? Cameron might be a slick salesman with Murdoch and Crosby on his side but their campaign promises have been largely hollow. Time to hold the government to account or is there a dead cat on the dinner table?

As I keep saying JC was overwhelmingly democratically elected by party membership. There is no appetite for a return to New Labour from the man on the street.

Well depends where 'your street' is.

There is certainly no appetite for JC around here, in a very very strong Labour area.

You can't equate LP members with all those that vote Labour and those you want to in future.

JC may appeal to some but he does not have widespread appeal, he comes a cross as quite dogmatic, has surrounded himself with some with unbending views. It is a great pity that David milliband was not elected and then Andy Burnham also defeated. Yes the Labour Party has a democratic system - fair enough, but so does the uk and therefore I see the Labour Party currently unelectable - that is democracy

Well why isn't the government being held to account it's being handed to labour on a plate .....

Yes some on the left are so concerned by not been seen as offending the wc or being prejudice against Muslims they would rather dismiss issues and shut the discussion down rather than confront them

UKIP appealed to voters because they felt they were being listened too

Enthusiasm first you said 'There is no appetite for New Labour from the person on the street' but then you've said the public is brainwashed into not voting for any alternatives such as Corbyn. Which is it?

I said it. The Labour membership who voted Corbyn said it said. The type of Labour "person on the street" who detested what Blair turned the party into - Iraq, privatisation etc. During the 2000's we had the two main parties as right/centre right which hamstrung the Tories because they were fighting a mirror image of themselves. Now, under Corbyn we have a return to a true two party system which is a largely contrary to the neo liberal agenda that has gone unopposed for 15 years. People have been brainwashed (by the press, politicians - and I include Blairites) who denounced anything challenging the status qou as wishy washy, out of touch etc. Yet the challenge is a democratic one far healthier than Murdoch endorsed free market zombie politics.

Can people elaborate as to why they think David Milliband or Burnham would be better leaders? Is it because they are young, fresh faced and probably look decent in a suit? Ground breaking stuff like that?

I suspect Labour will always have "the wrong leader".

People have been brainwashed

No I'm not brainwashed thank you

I voted Corbyn as I wasn't keen on Yvette or Liz and I so wanted to vote for a woman. JC seems like a decent person and I felt a legacy from him would do the party good. I never expected him to stay long and I think he will go soon. Having campaigned and spoken to our supporters and others we will lose votes because of JC. I have been shouted at there is so much anger over JC and other issues. Because I listened instead of getting angry at their opinions as others in the CLP do, I did manage to get a few to look at this vote on the work of the councillors merits and they agreed to vote Labour for them despite anger at the PLP.

The Labour Party has moved left the leadership is further left it is fighting the class battle of the 80's , the views are ideological. Those at the top are not pragmatic adopting policies and approaches to deal with the individual situation .

Because they are more to the centre

Politics has changed grass roots voting went out with thatcher

people vote for a leader who comes across as being confident and able to lead the party also one where there are not concerned about his judgements of those he surrounds himself with

And I think JC actually looks very smart in his suit

Rather that his ordinary man outfit

AB is just another used car salesman. Coirbyn is our last hope in having a PM who believes what he says. 100% Corbyn in our household.

Coirbyn is our last hope in having a PM who believes what he says.

Does he?

His views on EU seem to have changed very quickly.

Naz shah wasn't going to be suspended now she is

Etc etc etc....