(UPDATE) Am I a bitch? I don't want DD sleeping over with these people!

[thenappyslayer]

Original thread - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2623701-Am-I-a-bitch-I-dont-want-DD-sleeping-over-with-these-people?noti=1#60728941

So sorry for the essay but I'm so upset.

Do I like the fact that the kids are dirty, the dad is a borderline bully and the mum smokes around the DCs No? But that doesn't mean she is evil or doesn't have feelings and I do owe her an apology. I should have been (sort of) honest as many of you suggested and said we don't do sleep overs at other peoples homes. Just because I don't want DD sleeping over doesn't mean our kids can't have some fun. Today after school I gave DD a little pressie and card for the DC this post is about, hoping that would be the beginning of a peace offering. DD was excited and ran up to the other DC and gave it to her. Whilst they were having a little natter I took the opportunity to grab the mum for a quick apology - and to propose a sleep over at mine in a few weeks to make up for it.

I was well aware it could look like "Your home isn't good enough my my DD but my home is good enough for your DD" but to be frank as DDs mother I do have real concerns about this lady's current home life and don't feel comfortable. I think that's fair. As soon as I started speaking she was cutting me off with "it's fine" every five seconds - she wasn't being aggressive (I wasn't threatened ) but she was very snappy and rude. By this time our DC's were by us again and I didn't want the DCs to see the tension so I said "sorry again, but lets please try and work something out". As I started to walk away I heard "fuck off" under her breath and she started snapping at her two DCs who as I mentioned before are the most quiet little kids you will ever meet. She was rushing them to zip up their coats and hold on to the pram really harshly. I naturally turned around at the "fuck off" and when she started snapping I did frown (I noticed a dad behind her looking too) and she snapped at me again but only said "WHAT?" It easily could have been missed in a busy playground - nothing to call the police over - but it made me uneasy not only for me but for her DC's so I literally shook my head and walked off. It takes a bit to get out of the playground as the exit is a little on the small side and prams etc have to get through and I could hear her behind me going off and having a rant.

I'm not superwoman and didn't look back but she was upset about a fake bitch giving her looks (me) and some drama with her mum. Everyone around us could hear her and DD was getting anxious so I refused to look back and just got straight into the car.

Got home and told DH about what happened when he got in. It's not a big deal in the grander scheme of what life's about but it set off this huge fucking fight about moving DD to a different school.

I wont bore you with ten more paragraphs but DH was leaning towards prep school and I wanted her in state. Even when we didn't get our first choice of primary school I stuck to my guns and sent her to this one which at the time was rated "good" by OFSTED but has issues in the past. 31 kids in her class, unchallenging homework and two horrible teachers later and DH has had enough after what I told him went down after school. He knows this from my feedback and having a sweeping look at DDs homework and asserting it's too easy. Fair enough. It is. Okay then. I said what I saw to be the most rational thing at the time; "lets have another word with the teacher about homework and I'll give the other schools in the area a call"

He got really irritated and said I've had my way now I should just let it go and have her do 10+. I said we've already been to a couple of open days and I didn't like the vibe. I just didn't. I don't want her going too far before Y7 so we have a limited choice of independent schools.

The argument escalated and consisted of:

Me saying he is barely home, gets to sweep DD off her feet at 7:30pm every evening and be fun superdad while I'm flustered moany mum! I'm the one who does the hard shit (homework, school run, playdates, cooking, washing, after school clubs etc) and he gets to tuck her in and play with her on the weekends while I slave over dishes and hoover. He isn't even that involved in her school life (not as much as me) so what's wrong with me taking the lead with certain choices? Such as schooling?

Him saying he works really hard and does it all for us - why am I making him feel guilty for supporting us. What's wrong with him having quality time with DD when he gets in.

Me getting really angry because even though I don't do the crazy 70 hour weeks I used to, I do still take on a projects that can accommodate my home life. And no I'm not minted like him and his fucking family but my job isn't less than because I've cut down.

Him saying he didn't mean it like that

Me saying he did

Him saying I have something against independent schools and it's dramatic faux liberal crap

Him saying I think he's a snob and I'm missing the point. It's not about me thinking the schools are a bit elitist and lame, it's about DD's education.

DD was upstairs in her room probably heard the whole thing I'm disgusted at myself and pray she was fast asleep.

It was petty - but a little on vicious side and he has never ever spoken to me like this.

I'm downstairs and don't want to go to bed.

After being called a snob yesterday on MN its ironic that at home I get into a RL argument with DH because he thinks I think HE'S a snob.

I feel like such shit. Such shit.

From that mum being nasty in front of everyone at school to DH being pissed at me - this is a shitty evening. Just want to disappear.

You certainly wouldn't get behaviour like this at private school.

I'm pretty sure people were also saying DONT suggest a sleepover because of how it'd come across.

You can't say it's unfair on the OP because she did something some random people on the internet said to do.

The OP didn't want her dd to sleepover
She made a polite excuse
The other mother overreacted
OP tried to apologise in a time honoured middle class way
Other mother became abusive

Move her.

Send your dd to a better school if you can manage it. You sound very stressed and all this school business is making it worse.

I feel terrible for you that you get attacked on MN and then end up in a rather ironic argument with your DH.

It is all very well for people to suggest how things could have been better handled but it does sound like you are trying to be thoughtful and do what you think is best, and also please multiple people, so I think the criticism is a bit harsh.

Oh dear, first time reader here. You did say 'dd can't sleep at your house, so to make up for any bad feelings, your dd can come and sleep at our superior house'. That's in nobody's imagination, it's what you've conveyed in your post here.

'We don't do sleep overs, I hope they can still be friends in other ways' would have been fine - and not utterly contradictory, as the above was 'we don't but actually we do', if you take away the 'because our house is nice and yours is nasty' explanation.

If the other mother was at all pleasant, she may have thought that the dd didn't like sleepovers in other people's houses. Perhaps the dd gers nervous away from home. Lots do at that age.

So I'm afraid I'm not at all surprised the other mother was upset and angry and felt pressured and got at by you going on, when she'd indicated she wished the conversation to end. Who knows how busy, unhappy or stressed she was already feeling?

You wound her up, then gave her a disapproving look for letting her feelings of frustration show.

I would not have sworn audibly or ranted publicly but might well have been thinking 'will you just shut up and fuck off' had I been the subject of your attention. I might well have felt and been a little less composed afterwards, uncomfortable and just desperate to get out of there.

If the mother has decided that she dislikes you and your attitude, she shouldn't have accepted your present. You didn't deserve to be told to fuck off, and it was an unacceptable response in a playground full of young children.
I would steer well clear.
Inverted snobbery is equally as bad as snobbery.

I wanted to post to support you OP. Why does not approving of people who are being shit, not trying, smoking around kids, dirty kids make you a snob? My son is at a private school. Not a posh one, most mums work and all are trying to do the best for their kids, no showing off, no one up manship stuff at all. I think you get posh, snobby private schools and ones where people work hard to give their kids the best chance. Tell hubby you will go and see them again and go with an open mind. If looking down at scummy people and not wanting your kids to be involved with them makes you a snob so be it!!

Oh come on, if the dd is nervous in others' houses the OP would have mentioned it at some point in her exposition.

This poor woman lives with a 'borderline bully' while looking after multiple DCs. She's probably not comfortably off. Her life is probably stressful. She will be perfectly aware of the way others view her and very tuned in to judgemental attitudes.

OP if you were horrible you wouldn't be asking questions and trying to explore how to do things differently. You handled this badly and made a bad situation worse. Sounds like you were badly advised. It's one day, one series of unfortunate events. You can move onwards and upwards.

I'd comment on your thread OP, but I was only 16 when I had my first child so I'm probably not qualified enough for you

Oh dear what a mess. I don't even want to get into the sleepover business. On the school front, if you feel it isn't serving your daughter adequately on the academic front then I agree with your husband that you should look elsewhere, whether that is another state school or an independent.

If you keep her where she is you will just have to front out the bad feeling that exists between you and the other mums until it dies down. You'll all get over it.

Front front front - my word for the day

Sorry to be blunt but you are a snob; an inverted one.

You have insisted on making educational choices based on your ideology, not on what is best for your child, and faced with an apparent failure you still won't budge.
(I don't want her going too far before Y7.) Of course your husband should be fully involved in decisions about his children's education , but equally, he shouldn't go blasting into school complaining about standards without considered evidence and experience of how his daughter does her homework.

You and your husband need to sit down and discuss what is the best education you can get for your child, that suits her needs, not yours and how to achieve it. Having shouting matches about workloads, backgrounds and social aspirations is not productive, although it indicates unresolved tensions between you.

As for the mother at school, you have patronised and offended her, and worse still, made it clear to her children that you don't consider their home good enough.
If you want your child to benefit from the social mix you have to follow it through properly.

Sorry but with everything the OP said on the previous post AND the mother's reaction now I think her gut instinct to not let her DD stay over was spot on.

How you handled it however was clunky OP, I'm guilty of it myself and no doubt every single MNetter has had a similar situation where their intentions was the right one for their family but it ended up pissing someone off.

I refused to let a child come to a birthday party here because everything they said had a very sexual element to it. The dad also gambles, spotted the dad several times in the bookies first thing when I walk past. The mother is gobby so if her child did anything wrong in my house I would get a mouthful from her and it wasn't worth the stress

I put my hand up and admit I only invite people round my home OR let DC visit people who I think are suitable for me and my DC. It may make me snobby but ffs those first impressions of a person really count and having grown up on a rough as fuck council estate, lived with an alcoholic and seen drug abuse first hand I know just how damaging unsuitable environments are, even for a short period, for young children.

Your DH is being a bit of a snob RE prep schools being better. I personally don't agree with them and would like to see them disappear because it is a two tiered system and reinforces the fuck awful class system where kids grow up thinking they are worthless or better than everyone else

personally, If you feel the school isn't suitable put in for a transfer to another school. You have a one term left of this year and you might get a place for your preferred primary. If you DH is worried the work isn't challenging enough how about hiring a tutor for a while? This is the set up I have at home but because my DC has learning difficulties and needs support to get to the expected level.

Homework is usually set to what the teacher feels the pupil can achieve, sometimes homework is the easy bit because they look at the subject more in depth in class time. I know with my DC homework is often very easy and used as a way to introduce a topic with the more taxing work done in school. I queried why it seemed so easy and mostly consist of drawing/arty tasks or a reading/research exercise and this is what the teacher said to me. Ask the class teacher about homework!

FWIW I have some school gate foes. Its petty but amusing. Learn to laugh if you can it is the only way to deal with some of them. Some of the mothers have taken an instant dislike to me probably because I pointed out marrying a military man is a choice and doesn't make them martyrs

This wont be your first one. There will be more. Leave this woman to it. Crack on with your life and prepare for the poss that DD and her friendship may take a knock. It happens a lot as much as it shouldn't, it does. Moving to private school will just move the magnifying glass to an entirely different set of parent issues.

so I can't really relate to your 'dramatic faux liberal crap'

This.

I think you've had a hard time here too - people do so love to jump and stamp on anything that has a faint whiff of snobbery about it but ffs! Whatever your reasons for not allowing DD on the sleepover - they're YOUR reasons and that should be enough. You should have left it there.
However - you are doing your DD a major disservice by continuing to stick by your rather ridiculous stance on independent education. It's your job as a parent to do the best that you can by your child. Your DH seems to get this. Have a word with yourself because it's really not all about you.

We all have a picture of a man swearing at his children and his wife standing over the pram, smoking; we've all seen this before. Anyone who says that the OP is a snob for discarding the possibility of her daughter spending time at their house is stark raving mad.

I agree with you about the sleepover. You could have managed it better though.
Don't know why you are engineering these disputes with your dh. You are cross because he works till 7.30pm? Then have a sensible discussion about what you want to happen.moaning that you do the school runs and play dates doesn't seem constructive.
You do come across as someone that enjoys confrontation. Both of these arguments could easily have been avoided. You react emotionally to situations and get into arguments. Unhelpful. Grow up.

OP you have had a horrible time

The people flaming you on here are being unfair. This is a situation that has spiralled out of control. You didn't want your child sleeping over because you had concerns about the parents. That is absolutely fine. Yes in your original thread you made a dig about their ages but you were understandably upset about the way they were behaving like a gang of snidey playground bullies. Then you tried to make amends for your daughter's sake but this mum was horrible about it. However much I disliked another parent or felt they'd insulted me, I would never tell them - in front of kids! - to fuck off. I might rant about them at home but there are general standards of polite behaviour that normal people abide by. She hasn't and it just shows your original judgment about her was correct.

I don't know what to advise about schools except to say you need to cool off and leave some time between this incident and any decision you make. The most important thing is to ask your daughter if she is happy at school. If she is then you may have to suck it up when these mothers make comments at you in the playground, and try to just laugh it off. Also bear in mind that friendship groups can change over time, so in a few months your DD might be friends with other girls and this group (and their parents) won't matter so much.

The school doesn't sound a good fit for you or your DD.

I don't think the apology was a good idea, but the passive/aggressive swearing and ranting behind your back is not exactly wonderful behaviour either. And no, I don't think it's justified. If she'd calmly told you that she was offended, and that no...sleepovers were no longer an option then fair enough. But she didn't.

Honestly adjust your attitude on private. Get your daughter to a school that fits and works for you all, both on an academic level and social one.

You don't like a lot of the other parents. Fair enough. Accept that and move on. Plan A hasn't worked, time to check out Plan B.

Without question if I had the money to send all four of my kids to a private school I would, unless the state schools nearby were absolutely outstanding.

The way this government are fucking around with the education system would be enough of a reason, but you have more than enough reasons!

You're not a snob to want the best for your child, at all.

Oh one more thought...in future for school stuff I'd post in Primary Education, or Chat. AIBU is notoriously harsh.

You really seem to have a problem with teenage mums and those who were teenage mums don't you OP?