To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

I think boredom is really important for creativity, imagination and assimilating/connecting information. Quite often out of boredom my DC will pick up something entirely new for the first time, that had been previously rejected.

DD has always been very bright and curious, school hasnt killed that with a supportive and interested home environment. I got criticised (a lot) for not signing her up for 1001 out of school activities and tutors, but for focusing on the social side. We do lots of things at home, there are lots of resources available, but I'm not doing it all for them.

I probably could have written your post when she started school, but I made the conscious decision to not worry too much about being challenged at school. DD has been stretched there, but not until years 5 & 6. Her 11+ score was exceptional and she romped into a grammar place with no tutoring or extra help.

She is bright and interested and still curious about everything, but just as importantly she has a lot of friends, she is kind, polite and helpful and generally a nice human being.

I'm sure it's been said, but numbers to 100 isn't all that exceptional at 4.

At 4, DS1 was counting in 3s and 7s and whatever pattern you set him up on - and he didn't stop until he got bored (which took bloody ages). It's how we got through the nursery amble and sit on the ground, occasionally run.

Did the OP leave?

He sounds bright, but not the brilliant mini Steven Hawking . Both my sister and I could read before we could start school, recognise plants, birds and cars and neither of us would be described as geniuses by anyone. Nor did our bog standard primary school boreus or leave us feeling out of place. We were just a few months ahead of the other kids by virtue of what we'd been taught at home.

I'd focus on finding non-acadeic interests and things he can do and share with other children, normal rumbustious stuff with no learning goals attached - are there any sports or physical things he might enjoy?

Even if wants to become a surgeon or research scientist and spend his life chopping inse ts up, he will have to interact with others, work as a team and have sort of social hinterland.

DS1 also figured reading out by then, too.

And he was an expert button pusher. Nearly as good as you, OP.

The class gerbil had better watch out, by the sounds of it.

Seriously OP if you're still around. His nursery sounds dull as dishwater. School will be better, I'm sure.

Have a look at the early learning goals in the early years outcomes for all seven areas of learning. Achieving those is the point of reception. I'm sure they will find something to teach him, and I can guarantee he will not be bored!

I would be more worried about the fact that he doesn't appear to interact with other children?

Also - slightly off topic - but can you explain the anatomy of fish to me please?

Do any of the churches near you have kids nights? Yes he will learn about God (a debate of it's own) but it's good for socialising, seeing kids from school outside school. Ds goes to one for an hour on a weeknight and loves it. Are there any children who play supervised in the street? Get him a scooter and take him out for a spin on it. Smart children can feel very average when they grow up, as others have said he needs more than brains to be happy.

Pretty much all the kids at my DCs preschool can read and write to some degree, some fluently and in other languages, and recognition of numbers to 100 is not really exceptional (my DD counts to 100 every morning whilst waiting for the milk to soak into her weetabix). They have a lot of fun there too though, crafts, sport, drama/dance, baking, playing in the sand etc.
I could read fluently myself before starting reception and I don't remember ever being bored at school, any good teacher will recognise ability and differentiate the work given.

The only thing I would focus on from your op is that he seems withdrawn.

That's not good.

Whether they read at 2,4 or 6 is irrelevant.

Whether they can communicate with all others is imperative.

The CEO of most companies is the one who communicates best, the withdrawn person with the iq of 200 is sat at her computer, working away.

Felicity is right to pick up on the thing that should be a matter of concern: it's not that his intelligence and intellectual forwardness are likely to cause problems later on, but it does sound as if he might be struggling in other areas (unless the nursery is really really piss poor, in which case that problem will soon be solved).

Does he find it difficult to interact with other children? Does he find it difficult to motivate himself and find things to play with without an adult? Do all games and conversations have to be on his terms and is that why he struggles in a setting with his peers?

As a parent it is easy to think that your child's preference for adult conversation marks him out as advanced for his age (think my parents made that mistake with me) and forget how much easier it is for him if someone is constantly adapting to him and taking his lead. For the same reason, children who are late developers socially often find it easier to play with older children: not because they are really on the same level, but because older children will make allowances.

KindDogsTail, the way to make sure "brilliant" children don't crash as soon as they get challenged is to make sure they get challenged all the way along, not by pretending to a child who loves academics that academics aren't important.

OP, I think the thing is here there are two almost separate issues going on.

Socially, preschool doesn't seem to be working out well for your DS, and they seem to be blaming him for it rather than trying to provide support. That doesn't sound great. It's unclear from your post what you've done to try to support him socially. Do you do play dates? If so, how is he with other children at home? There's every chance foundation teachers will be better at this as settling children in socially is a huge part of starting school.

Then academically it sounds like you feel preschool also aren't engaging him. Is his only interest science? Will he not draw or build with construction toys or play shops or anything? Even in science, there should be stuff going on. For example DD's preschool have stick insects - fascinating to watch and study. They plant seeds and watch them grow. They have weeks about spring or birds or music or whatever and piles of books about those things out for the kids to look at or get the teachers to read to them. They engage the kids in all these things at the level they're at, from the 2 yr olds through to very articulate and academically able 4 yr olds. What sort of activities do they do that you feel are aimed at younger children? Are you sure they aren't engaging your DS in the same activities but at a more sophisticated level? Could it be they're actually a bit too structured/academic for him and making them all sit through recognising-the-number-3 lessons? In terms of school, again, I'd expect and hope for better. Some schools are better than others. At least your DS will be able to learn to read and write which should keep him busy a while.

I'd go back to preschool and ask for a chat about what they're doing to try to engage him. And if you haven't already, arrange some playdates, either with friends you know from home/family/baby groups/whatever, or ask preschool if there are any children he engages more with and get in touch with their parents. We've sent a note with a phone no via school/nursery before when we didn't know the parents at all.

p.s. specially for Felicity: the one thing to remember about the anatomy of fish is that when you dissect it you must not pierce the gallbladder, otherwise it will taste awful

(I was not scientifically gifted but I did grow up in a fishing community)

I have 2 genuinely gifted children. One who is above average, one bang on average, one who has learning difficulties and one who is too young to tell. The "to young to tell" one is 4.

The reason I say that she is too young to tell is because she is exhibiting all of the abilities that her gifted siblings showed, but also some that her average and LD siblings showed too.

The gifted ones where always at towards the top of their learning groups but not particularly exceptional until they hit about 7 when their peers started to level out and they didnt. By that point it was very clear to everyone that they needed extra support (just as their LD brother did, its just as challenging in some ways) and the school provided it. If the school hadnt done that then I would have considered a change but it wasnt an issue.

I am not saying that he isnt exceptional, but that nothing you post suggests that you should be saving for him to go to uni at 13. I agree with PP that you need to focus on his social skills and interaction with his peers. A lack of social confidence will be far more damaging to his long term prospects than a percieved lack of intellectual stimulation at this point.

boaks at thought of fish having gallbladders. Oh Jesus.

I smell shite coming from OP's direction. Never mind, I'm sure she'll pick up that soft skill herself one day.

Oh and picking through his dinner, asking why we dont float away and saying that he would like to be a fish "why cant I be a fish mummy? Can we go and see the fish again?" doesnt indicate anything tbh.

What are your children gifted at bogeyface?

Without meaning to sound rude, he doesn't sound so bright that an average pre school wouldn't know what to do with him. In fact, he sounds like a withdrawn but curious 4yo. The issue here sounds like he's in a poor pre school.

I can assure you, it may seem like he learned numbers to 100 in 10 minutes but his brain has been processing that information for years. DD turned 2 this month and can identify numbers up to 20 and count up to 20 and back to 0. She was counting to 6 before she could walk. Number recognition and understanding starts far earlier than most people would imagine.

I really do want to know more about him killing insects and cutting up fish though. Are you letting him go around killing and gutting things??

I think a lot has changed in schools to cater for a variety of abilities in school. I went to one school for the summer term directly after my 4th birthday already being able to read newspapers. Then I changed schools and went into the beginning of reception of the new school. This meant I effectively went down at least a year on my maths and two on my reading/writing because the previous school was a reception/yr 1 class. I hated my new school, all we did was play and there was no structured learning for weeks and weeks. My schooling and confidence suffered terribly and I went from being an exceptional to a mediocre kid very quickly. But this was in the 70's. It sounds like you're ds is perhaps finding himself a little in this position right now. But once he's at school, it doesn't sound like you're going to let what happened to me happen to your ds. In your position, I would teach him anything he wants to know including reading. The teachers have a pretty comprehensive programme to accommodate all abilities these days as mentioned by other posters.

Why would you NOT twiddle an abacus ....

And OP where ru ?

Despite having been quite bright and early in many ways as a child, I always find myself bemused by hearing of children who get bored and get their development knocked back from having to play instead of doing structured learning- unless they are very shy and struggle for that reason, which I do understand. Surely playing is learning, it is making things up, being creative, using your brains. How can that make you go backwards?

Dd1 won a story competition at age 3yo. She knew her times tables before going to school.
Dd2 was reading Little House on the Prairie the summer holiday before she started school and could add three digit numbers in her head.
Ds could explain a sonic boom and could reason from cause to effect on WWII issues... From books he'd read by the time he started school. He could do basic algebraic equations (sister's homework!) too.

ok that's it. I'm sacking my children. :)

I'm not sure dd1 EVER learned her times tables.

DS asked me age 8 (think it was after he made his communion and definitely after at least 3-4 years of sunday school classes in how to be a catholic) "but what religion are we?" His friend didn't know either.

If you have a very intelligent or highly gifted child, I do think it is important to offer them something for that intelligence to work with. I don't think saying "forget intelligence, social skills are what it is all about" is enough. you kind of have to deal with the whole exact child you have.

In my experience reading can provide all that and more-it is like a wormhole into every world ever imagined. Music is also a good complex, gratifying workout for the brain. A 4 year old could easily begin learning an instrument and the elements of musical notation.

Oh dear possibly the OP wanted to hear her dc is exceptional

He is bright no doubt..but like many other posters my main goal is that my dc love to play, share engage, enjoy imaginative play, make friends and ultimately have fun.

My ds is 4 has just learnt how to write this own name, hasn't got great pencil grip.
He can count to 50, knows his colours and shapes. He started to talk early,walked late.
He's very shy, can sometimes ignore family members!
He is hilarious in my opinion Basically he's perfect