To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

You can open up your concern to the school and surely, they'll advise you what's good for your son.

My daughter was the same although reading and comprehension are her passions. Before she started school she could tell you what any number to a million was.

Before she started I told the teacher where she was with reading etc she looked at at me like I was a delusional parent.

However, in the first few weeks at school they check their levels to chart progress over the year and after my daughter did all the phonic sounds perfectly and ready all the posters on the walls the teacher gave in and let her choose books with words while everyone else had to had picture books she also told us that my DD had a higher level of understanding than everyone else in the class. Reception was actual great for my daughter as she had a good teacher and the full resources of a large school. At nursery she had been limited as they are not trained to teach.

Year old was more restrictive as they start the ciricculum and so she had to repeat a lot of the work she had done in recepyion.

Year 2 has been better she is a free reader and is developing a love of history.

I choose her school as it had a good policy on supporting able child which I knew would be important. She loves school it's like a dream come true for her!

Hamster how lovely! I could read fluently very young but would sometimes pretend I couldn't as reading the more basic books let me chat to my mates about them - so there was an upside. Then I'd read novels at home big mistake to leave gruesome serial killer mysteries on the bottom shelf mum ... then wonder why I was having nightmares! .

*I would advise you focus on teaching you boy to have fun and make friends at this age, you cannot teach it later. Balance it out a bit.
(All work no play will make Jack a dull boy! Trust me!) *

This! (And thanks for the Shining flashback ... see PP ).

Maybe you could encourage his creative side? If he's sitting twiddling an abacus on his own rather than playing an imaginative game with the other kids....?

Academic private school at 5 is always the way to go with these children.

Not all - absolutely not. It can be the ruin of some.

My cousin and I are academic carbon copies-same IQ, same grades, same areas of interest.
He took a highly academic route from 5. It didn't suit him at all - he wasn't robust enough for the competiton/rigour - he's still struggling with it emotionally to this day. He also struggles with people who are clearly very bright but either non academic, rebellious or were 'late bloomers' (for example someone who failed their 11+ but went on to gain perfect A levels and attend LSE). There's a deep unhappy resentment.

On the other hand my mum found the best state schools she could for me and possibly far too much supplemented it with other opportunities such as learning musical instruments, writing competitions etc. I came out with the same paper qualifications but was a lot happier. I ended up with a career which is steady, interests me and earns a good wage - but isn't your stereotypical "doctor/lawyer/civil servant" high achiever role. And unlike my cousin (who has a very academic job, but not 'high status') I'm fine with that: none of those areas interested me and my own work does, ergo I am successful. I don't 'owe' mummy or daddy a certain status as they didn't pay or suffer to educate me. I don't owe my school's name any job or status as it's just a good solid LEA former grammar.

The irony is I'm quite a headstrong person and would probably have held my own in a hothouse independent school anyway - so they aren't always a bad choice- they're just not always a good choice either.

Listless abacus holders might thrive better in a different style of school. Dare I say one of those hippy self led unschooly type places ... which would have been an utter disaster for me!.

...sorry. Drip feeding - by carbon copies I mean (in the years before A*): 10 As at GCSE, 3 As at A level, Double Hons BA from RG university, MA.

...different personalities.

Have you considered he's bright for a reason, my son who is the same and in reception is very bright, but doesn't understand social boundaries or cues and prefers adult conversation, has specialised interests which he knows inside out. Turns out he has Asperger syndrome but I wouldn't change him and it explains alot, just an avenue you might want to explore.

some of the stuff you are describing OP is like me when I was a child and I was later diagnosed as Asperger's.

Reading OP again. Gravity? Really?
Apart from that, I've enjoyed reading some sensitive replies about how to keep smart children engaged and happy in equal measure. But Gravity? Sorry, either my kids are duffers or a pudding may have been over-egged in the OP!

My DSs (4 and 6) are both aware of gravity Biilbosmum but only because they like dropping things. But they can explain it and how it stops them from floating around. As with most things, it's whatever catches their interest and how it's explained to them (i.e. it sounded interesting). They are not gifted/super-bright but they like knowing things and that's one thing they've absorbed.

biilbos whether liking to talk about gravity at age 4 is a sign of anything above average intelligence rather depends whether he has been told that the reason things fall down rather than up Iis gravity and likes to drop things and say he's experimenting with gravity, or repeat things he's been told as a party trick, or whether he actually understands how gravity works and initiates discussions of gravitational waves and so on, I guess.

Any 4 year old can ask why things fall down rather than float away, prompted by seeing something on TV about astronauts or even seeing a helium balloon float away...

Well that's great, Flugel. I guess my two must be classic late bloomers!

Any post that begins with " This is not a boasting post" then goes on to use 'snide' comments ( to use Firstwetakemanhattan's language

That's a little misleading.

I quoted another poster who used the word 'snide' and asked them to clarify the use of it.

Totally agree. I suppose I had assumed the OP was referring to a deeper understanding. And yes, any child who feels safe engaging in chatter and questioning will know that stuff falls and a thing called gravity makes that happen. In which case that's not exceptional. But because The OP implied their child was exceptional I took it mean a deeper understanding.
My eldest was obsessed with triangles, which he called 'trentriangles' and would point and spot them on house porticoes and signs obsessively when he was 3. But he had no idea of the actual geometry!

I agree that socialisation is important, but for some kids they just don't want to. This could be their nature or aspergers/autism.

Don't worry about him being a bit bored. He is very young still. Just choose your school very very wisely. But to be honest it will really come down to the individual teacher in the school which makes things tricky.

I will say that just because he can count to a high number doesn't mean he will be excellent at other areas of maths like algebra, shapes, worded problems, probablity etc. Maths is much broader.

DS was the same (he is 11 now). He was curious at how things worked, he could count to 1000 at age 3 and knew he is times tables by the time he was 5. Even now at age 11 he is on the gifted and talented program. He can multiply/divide three digit numbers easily in his head.

Academically wonderful, but at age 4 he would do his own thing and not join in with the other kids. He is okay one-to-one but hates larger groups. In nursery he was bored but we sent him to socialise him, but it did not work really as he just didn't think much of the other kids.

He is not asperger or anything (he has a lot of empathy and understanding) - he is just socially awkward - a classic nerd.

We supported him by putting him by initially putting him into a school which had tiny classes (there were 7 kids) and he progressed a couple of years beyond the norm. Then when he was a bit older we changed to another school with entire classes of very advanced children - it made him look very very ordinary (this was in Australia though) - he hated not being the best. I don't know if there are such schools in UK.

He is in an ordinary primary and we are sending him to a local high school with clear gifted and talented streams. I would say he has slipped back a year or two since coming back to the UK, but he is still top of the class and it has been wonderful for him socially and this is what we needed to improve. We know he will do well academically.

Interesting posts on these later pages. I do disagree with the poster who said academic private school is always the best route, and I was somewhat agog at the one who said her DD was so advanced that she only talked to adults at preschool, because the other children didn't "get" her.

My DS is crazy good at maths, not least because he is so obsessed with it. But he is at a state infant school where children learn to respect everyone. Teachers also treat the children with respect and value each one's own contribution. One of his friends has SEN and not much speech, another has been his bestie for years despite having no common interests on paper, but they respect each other's different interests and just crack on. They are learning to get along. This does not come easily to DS and it is definitely having to be taught, but it is going to be a much better tool to him in life than being taken into a more academic environment that only feeds his sense of self-importance!

There are some jobs that can be done by the very clever, interacting only with people on their own "intellectual plane", but there are a lot more in which people have to build rapport as well as getting A grades. Doctors need to talk with patients, lawyers with their clients, engineers need to explain and sell their ideas. This stuff doesn't come easily to everyone and it's not as easy as letting preschoolers free with a sandpit. But I believe strongly that a very able child gains enormously from a school in which they can mix widely and learn to respect and get along with everyone. And yes, be taught those skills rather than just picking it up by osmosis. Learning about gravity or long multiplication is the easy bit!

Hey OP, if your instincts tell you he's bored you might feel better having things checked out.

It might be worth talking to school (&preschool) re your concerns.

It might be reasonable for him to be doing more at preschool- reading etc.

School can arrange educational psychology assessment to help establish his need academically & socially.

A bored bright child can be tricky, as they can seem isolated/disengaged. No harm in asking the school for their help on this.

Good luck!

I agree with neighbourhood and mouldy cheese. My ds did everything early, walked at 9 months, talked really early etc but has really struggled at school and has been assessed for ADHD. Everybody even dr's commented on how bright he was when he was little. He and his brother killed our guinea pig when they were younger as well. I don't think killing and dissecting insects is normal and not something I would personally encourage. With this and what you have written about him being withdrawn and the lack of social skills, I too may be looking at HFA or asperges. Sorry, I don't want to worry you and good luck with whatever you decide with your Dc's education x

I grew up on a farm and dissecting animals (that were dead anyway) was a normal part of my childhood. I'm now a biologist. Think I might have to go to the butcher this weekend and order a bull's eye or a pig's heart for the kids though, they'd love it!

Sounds like your pre-school isn't doing a good job but there's only a few weeks left and hopefully school will be better (have you read the Ofsted report/been to the school before making your choices?). I agree with PPs that you should let him learn to read if he's interested.

I was told by kindergarten teachers (we live in California) that I'd have to support my son's learning at home. We bought a lot of books (my son has five bookshelves in his room) -- mostly used books to help with the cost and mainly non-fiction at first (my younger son also loved marine life and space as a youngster). I also would go to a car boot sale and buy old VHS machines and cameras for little money and our kids had a table like thing that held a deep tray (concrete mixing tub) and they would use pliers and screwdrivers to take the thing apart. We visited a lot of museums, spent a day at the beach (we live very close) scrambling over rock pools and snorkeling. We travelled as much as we could, cheap road trips, nothing fancy or expensive. We did a lot of cooking, made our own pasta, bread, yogurt, spaghetti sauce etc (they are much older now and both enjoy cooking), experimented with food colour, made pulleys and sent each other messages, put shaving foam or sand in the concrete mixing tub table. Watched science videos on youtube. Taught them how to build things out of wood with simple toys. Did a lot of math, random stuff, whatever was interesting... e.g. if we were doing addition we did it with really really big numbers because my son thought it was fun! Made models out of cardboard of different shapes or dragons or paper aeroplanes and tweaked them to see what worked the best. They also had a lot of lego and we watched videos on how to make interesting things. Let them dig big mud holes in the back garden and fill them with the hose and get disgustingly muddy. Mini trampets to jump, a rope attached to the ceiling to spin on, a big foam beanbag to jump on. We had hammocks and still will go to the library and get a new book then take our hammocks to the park and read. We dressed up and went to bookstores for launches of books like Harry Potter. We would get a big roll of paper and design cities or a house or a plan of a castle or we would make thumbprints and turn them into people... drs, engineers, cooks, bus drivers, kings, mail carriers etc It was very hard work when they were young, I was tired a lot! But school was more fun for them that way because their minds and bodies were exercised and I had a break when they were at school. Reading was the best thing for both of them. My older son had zero interest in books and story telling when he was young but enjoyed it as he got closer to school age.

tools not toys for wood working

My younger son (15) still likes watching science videos with me. We have the royal institute Christmas lectures on DVD that they like and we enjoy "Smarter Every Day" on you tube. For a while he enjoyed Brian Cox's various videos but not so much lately.

I'd love it if one of my children wanted to dissect things, and would encourage it (within reason. pets would be safe). I don't see anything remotely sinister about this. Many 'great' or high-achieving scientists, naturalists and doctors started out this way.

Your son sounds like a joy. Like lots of people have said, work on his social skills, certainly, but don't allow naysayers to make you think that formal schooling is the only option. Is Home Education an option in the future?

To be honest, my sons were both ahead of their peers at 18 months but when the children learn to properly read books (about Year 2) others start to catch up. My sons could both count 1-10 and do most of the alphabet song by themselves at 18 months and my youngest was very bright and emotionally bright too, always reading people's emotions and asking, "Are you happy?" and cocking his head to one side to assess if we were or not. Both were practically reading by the time they went to school at 4 and a half. They were obsessed with numbers and the alphabet probably because I love alphabet and number toys (fridge magnets, bath foam alphabet letters, gorgeously illustrated books) so I think what I exposed them to helped too. I'm sure you are pushing him forwards to learn without realising how much input you are having. I didn't dissect fish with them but if I'd been enthusiastic about doing that with them, I'm sure they would have enjoyed it. However, a child would never ask to do that alone and they will do whatever their parents lead with. I remember my eldest walking down the road at 3 and a half and sounding out our road name because of all the exposure to reading he'd had. They are definitely in the top 3 in their class and on the top reading level and we wondered if they would be bored but don't underestimate the other children! Now my sons are nearly 6 and 7 and a half and I go in for 2 hours each week to read with my 7 yo's class and help out and I'm often impressed by what some of the other children can do. Some are great at drawing, some at reading, some at listening and answering the question, some are very polite and helpful and some are even good at music but I don't think any child is good at absolutely everything. I wonder if you are so concerned about your son being so bright and left behind that you are actually influencing the conversation with him after nursery and assuming he's so advanced that you are encouraging him to say he's bored. The teachers at school notice when a child is advanced. My 7yo is in Year 2 but doing Year 3 level maths. He's amazingly intelligent and inquisitive but also lacks some common sense too and is often daydreaming about maths or space when I give him instructions and it can be very frustrating! If the school thinks your child is advanced for his age they will comment on this at your parent's consultations and tell you how they intend to keep him stimulated but it's a bit early to assume he is a genius and extremely advanced beyond his peers so it's best to be patient and see what happens. After all, you are going to be biased as his mother.

A good nursery or pre-school, and reception/ foundation class too should be rich in opportunities to learn through play and this should provide an ideal environment for children to pursue their own interests and enthusiasms and to develop at their own level, I've worked and trained in early years for a long time and really recommend you embrace the concept of learning through play - it really is the key to children's natural way of learning all through the early years and beyond.
So a child shouldn't be bored by activities in pre-school mainly because they shouldn't be so adult led and prescribed - they should be open ended and exploratory.
I honestly would have kept my DC in their wonderful nursery classes for another year if I could have done and not missed out on a transition to reception with others - they were brilliant learning environments. Wasn't in any hurry for them to move up in order to learn more/ be less bored.
Look at what they do in Scandinavia with a later start to formal education and more time in wonderful forest school and such like. And look at their brilliant results and well-rounded children a few years later.
If you want the best for your DC and I'm sure you do with all the exploration and communication you're currently doing then please rethink the value of play at least for the next few years