To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

Hi MMM, I think I have read all your posts and I can't see much info about the school he is going to in September. Is it outstanding? Do they have a good reputation for getting children into good schools at 11? Does it also offer a well-rounded education?

If it is an outstanding school with an excellent reputation he should be okay. If it isn't he may not do so well. A neighbour of mine put her daughter into our local state primary (Ofsted - good) and took her away after a term. Instead of teaching the children to read they had some weird method of looking at a picture of a cat with C A T written underneath. I'd love to know what picture they use for words like "change", "necessary" or "success" for example. As her five year old was the only child who could read properly they had her teaching other five-year-olds who couldn't read. She was an average child but she was bored every day.

You could always try and get a bursary for him at a selective prep if there are any near to you. If he passes the exam with a high mark they may offer him a free place. You would need to work on his conversational skills first though for his interview.

My 6 year old literally played with nobody till he was in yr 2. We went all the way through pre school, reception and yr 1 with no invitations, no play dates and playing on his own at break. I was really worried, school were less worried as he was happy to work in small groups. Finally at nearly 7 he has little friends who are similar to him but he seemed just as happy without friends as with. Children , particularly boys, develop social skills at different rates. Turns out my son was happiest doing what he wanted to do rather than befriend children and then play what everyone else wanted to.

My boy was uber clever as a pre schooler, couldnt help but be extremely proud. However, I echo that the social schools need honing more to be able to integrate and get on in society. Incidentally, my gorgeous, clever boy is now a teen with possible aspergers - so he's still frustrated that everyone around him is 'an idiot' and is painfully short of friends.

😂the insects but is hilarious. I think he will be fine. My three A Grade kids all survived school and are doing fine. Over exposure to a constant stream of information is as dangerous as no stimulation. They need to learn to just sit and listen, be still, patient, take turns etc etc. Try not to panic. The classes are all streamed to meet the needs of all the different kids.

Nothing odd about dissecting insects. Most children do at some point. Love him for him, inspire him, and forget about trying to be 'normal'. Go with the flow and you can stimulate him yourself. My daughter is bright, top at everything right from the outset then just is now bored. Year 5 is boring! Science is boring.. her grades are dropping... she doesn't want to go to school and is beginning to pull sickies so she can spend all day on the laptop. But she isn't exceptional, just curious. I've recently started a science 'club' where I will and another mum will be taking kids out to science shows etc, to keep their interest up, to inspire them. Some kids just develop faster than others, and absorb things more quickly than others. It doesn't mean the rest won't catch up and pass them by, it just means that while you have the chance you can have so much more fun with them by providing a stimulating environment at home, even if the school is catering for the average classroom needs for that year. You never know, maybe the average is high than other classes or years and he will achieve more than by attending. If not, just give more in the weekends/evenings. And if you want, as the previous comment, you can always get a tutor. It doesn't need to be in Maths or English. My girls plays three instruments now, and 3 sports after school. Not necessarily great at all, but fills her time with stimulation. My other daughter is completely different and unique in her own way, being dyslexic she needs more support. We laugh about spelling, muddling things up, and from not being able to read in year 3, she topped the class in year 6. Different horses - different paces. Just need to understand what motivates them.

Schools can and do adapt to ability. They have extra work for MAGT so will be able to accommodate bright kids. My sister had an issue of being a clever clogs and an option to go up a year. She didn't, though, because my parents preferred her to enjoy the social side of life rather than become just academic. She is still wonderfully bright, but very grounded and normal as a result.
Your son will be fine.

if he wants to read let him read. dont hold him back. he will pick up reading by you and him reading together. let him point to words etc.

but he needs to learn to play and interact too.

"he was just sat twiddling an abacus. .... Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged. " - says child who doesn't know how to play and engage rather than super intelligent child.

a child at the low end of the spectrum too may just sit twiddling and not engaging... (that was my ds at nursery - he was way behind cognitively - has ASD and SLD) maybe speak to nursery about what activities he does like see how they can be somehow incorporated? .

have him assessed by a private educational psychologist if you want to "prove" his abilities ....and maybe discover his weaknesses too....areas where he might need help eg social side, imaginative play, role play....

if you give him a cardboard box does he sit in it and pretend it s a car/rocket/plane and make up great stories about his adventures...or does he dissect it?

Just to make something clear. School can be boring. Many more advanced kids will find some parts of school boring, but average children, and children who struggle in some subjects will find school boring at some point. You cannot expect your child to be stimulated 100% of the time, 5 days a week, every week. They need to play, enjoy themselves, have fun, socialise, discover, explore, on their own and with other children. It's not because a child is 'intelligent' that they need to be stimulated all the time, they also need to find their way and have fun, and be bored sometimes (and learn to deal with it), just like all children.

Maybe pre school nursery staff are just not arsed and leave the kids to occupy themselves? Maybe just be a bad nursery?

We had a great nursery but some of the staff were not the brightest (daily report sheets were riddled with appaling grammar... us mum's used to lol over them... but they were great with the kids so we did not complain). My very bright (only child) son loved it there because they made it fun.

Worst nursery attitude I observed was when I was waiting at the door to be let in to view it... I peered through the window and saw two 'carers' stood chatting away with the hoover on (but not actually hoovering) with 4 babies between 12-18 mths sat on the floor right next to the output exhaust blowing crap into their faces!!
Theolder kids were in another room and all looked very bored and unstimulated.

I banged on the window and when I was let in tore a strip off her (oh the look she gave me but I don't care!) and I told the manageress exactly why I would not be enrolling my son there!

BUT I am also conscious that they can't give them 1:1 care all day so there will be times he is 'left to play' with an abacus.
Hard to get true picture and context from a 4 year old.

Will be Gifted and Talented program at his Primary school, but please teach him that having fun is equally important as scoring high in tests.
You are as responsible for his social development as you are teaching him to read/write etc..

The way the labour market is going, social and emotional skills are going to have much more impact on career success than ever before. The article below is not necessarily directly relevant, but this quote is interesting ...

www.wired.com/2013/10/free-thinkers/

“In 1970 the top three skills required by the Fortune 500 were the three Rs: reading, writing, and arithmetic. In 1999 the top three skills in demand were teamwork, problem-solving, and interpersonal skills. We need schools that are developing these skills.”

Spoon you are assuming that that child enjoys playing and playing with other children. He might well not being keen on it at all!!
It might be that, IF he has social difficulties, this is actually a real nightmare for him because he is so uneasy.
In that case, should sending him to nursery and forcing him to socialise with his peers the best thing a parent can do?

Being a really smart child can indeed be both a blessing & a bane, not least for the parents. I'd definitely investigate alternative options for your son, even if it might mean considerable upheaval, change & investment. Telling you about my niece might help you see the positives there can be too. She was similarly precocious & challenging (& also loved dissecting small creatures!) My brother & SIL tried her in various schools but she hated it, so they ended up mostly homeschooling her. For a year, she also went to a very carefully chosen private prep school, then a private secondary for another two. This required considerable sacrifices for her parents, as well as shuttling back & forth between different countries. Ultimately tho', it allowed her to breeze thru formal education requirements & make lots of friends, with whom she's continued to stay in touch. By the age of 14, she'd aced six A levels and, deciding for herself that she was still too young for uni (Cambridge, her choice), she spent the next two years doing the same with another six. She's now 17 and has just completed an internship with a US law firm (for fun, again her choice). Despite everyone's early concerns about her social skills, she has developed into a charmingly friendly, happy & healthy young woman who, through always being encouraged to make the most of her intelligence, isn't ashamed of it. Intelligence isn't everything, of course, but it is a gift one you & your son are very lucky to have. Go with 'what is', rather than ' what if' and enjoy it!

I agree with that too Laurie with the proviso that these skills will be needed ON THE TOP on the 1979s ones.

I'd love to know how intents and schools are supposed to do that though. None of us have ever been taught to be social. It's something that we have picked up (or not) as we went along.

FlyingScotsman Thu 28-Apr-16 13:37:16

"Spoon you are assuming that that child enjoys playing and playing with other children. He might well not being keen on it at all!!
It might be that, IF he has social difficulties, this is actually a real nightmare for him because he is so uneasy.
In that case, should sending him to nursery and forcing him to socialise with his peers the best thing a parent can do?"

I'd say encouraging him to socialise with his peers and gently teaching him how to do so would be the best thing. Given that there are very few jobs catering to a high intellectual ability which do not depend on the ability to forge networks and get on with other people. The days of lonely academics in ivory towers are long gone, and in business the soft skills are becoming increasingly important. As other posters have pointed out.

If you had a clumsy and unfit child he probably wouldn't enjoy exercising. But it would still be the right thing to encourage him to do so, doing your best to find a suitable kind of exercise.

Children are shown how to listen to others, respect each other, take turn in play, have lots of listening games (in smaller groups), not put their hand up but teacher to pick names out of a jar so that every child has a chance to speak. And be given time to sort things out between children without constantly having an adult to intervene. They explore, for example, they learn about electricity by being given various connective and safe battery packs and figuring out themselves how to make a circuit. Being given large trays of water and various objects that sink or afloat and figuring out by them selves which ones sink, and which ones float. And what happens if you put paper in the water? And plastic? Does anything changes colour or texture when wet? Etc. These are all things happening in nurseries and reception classes. They all help with independence, being curious, socialisation, figuring out by themselves what will happen, etc.

I have one DS who is G&T in maths, and ahead in all subjects (y4), and he is very happy in normal school. Never once said he was bored. He has loads of friends and enjoys all the extra challenges that his teachers have offered him. We work with him at home, especially in maths, but not in any extra private tuition. I have never had him tested formally or IQ tested, and it is my intention NOT to have him tested until he decides for himself if he wants to be tested or not.

Be ready to find out he is on the autistic spectrum. I tried very hard to ignore it when my Sprog was young and now have come to realise and properly accept that not only is he on the spectrum but so am I and his father.
I wish I'd been more open to it earlier it would have saved us a lot of time and energy and would have allowed us to enjoy life sooner instead of constantly worrying why stuff didn't fall into place the way it did for other folk.

I would strongly reccommend getting him assessed by a professional well-versed in spotting AS traits and behaviours. Then if he is assessed as on the spectrum don't (as I was when I didn't know better) be afraid or dreading what it means - it means you will have the information to provide what he needs the way he needs it and not (as so many parents do) an opportunity to try and reshape who he is to fit into a pre-conceived idea of what 'normal' is supposed to look and behave like.

But the issues around playing coupled with unusual special interests such as dissecting insects and fish (thank goodness he waits until they are dead though - that's a blessing) does suggest your family may be about to discover a fascinating whole new aspect about themselves - and if you are - welcome to the fold and a world where life never stops being interesting and there is always something new to learn and new ways to make use of information absorbed.

If not - then still be happy to have a unique and fascinating kid and do whatever you can to foster an interest in play and socialising - actually even if your sprog is on the spectrum if he can look upon play and socialising as a skill like learning the piano and if he can see the benefits of becoming good at that skill then it can be a way to develop the skills without it causing too much stress.

Have you thought of Montessori schooling? That seems to cater for all types of abilities and interests. I do think the social things that other posters are saying is also important. It is a difficult situation, and ignore anyone who gives you a hard time. We all want to do our best for our children. You haven't said you want him to be the next Einstein, you simply want him to feel stimulated, as we all want to feel stimulated.

Personally, I would allow your son to learn to read, because it may be the stimulation he needs, and he will then find out all the information he wants on his own. The downside of that is that it may be to the detriment of his social skill development, as he may well choose books over people. Perhaps also try finding a team sport or sport of some sort (or drama class or something similar) that he can do with other children so that he definitely has a social situation that he gets used to dealing with. Re school, a good school will find some way of keeping him stimulated - someone once said that Gifted and Talented is the opposite end of the spectrum of Special Needs to Learning Support (i.e., it is also a special need). This may be easier in a school with lower adult to child ratios, however... Good luck.

Flyingscotsman social skills can be taught and are. They always have been to some extent - tthingsas basic as turn taking and following classroom rules are social skills, and it's nothing new to work on skills that are intuitive or picked up by osmosis by some children, with ones who need more help. Role play and stories and learning to identify body language and facial expressions from pictures are all ways that work on different levels.

The thing is children who "just are" social hone their social skills through play mostly - it's one reason small children naturally role play so much. Kids who don't play with other kids miss that and are disadvantaged. Kids can be taught to play to some extent, and slightly artificial playmate groups can be set up and monitored for them as part of that during some segments of the session/ day.

Hi
I haven't read all of the replies as there are so many so apologies if I'm repeating other posts.
If you feel that your child is intellectually gifted then you could contact local independent schools about getting a full scholarship for him, these are not advertised but my niece was given a full scholarship at 3yrs as she is exceptionally academic, fee's uniform, trips, everything paid for. The advantage of this type of private school is that the schools are academically selective which means that the curriculum is more stimulating for an able child and also the classes are smaller so the progress is accelerated.
Having said this, I doubt if he would get a paid for place if he can't read but it might be worth looking into if you really feel he's that exceptional.
If you do opt for a state school I'm sure he'll be fine, there are many many gifted children in state schools, intelligence comes in many forms.

Nothing odd about dissecting insects. Most children do at some point

Really? I think we need a poll. Personally, I'd find it unusual and worrying.

Any post that begins with " This is not a boasting post" then goes on to use 'snide' comments ( to use Firstwetakemanhattan's language ) like 'twiddling with an abacus' will expect to receive some 'robust' replies.

So for all us Mums whose children may be perfectly happy in their first weeks at school ' twiddling with an abacus ' maybe OP should read back what she's written.

If an abacus doesn't quite cut the mustard and she's of the opinion that "at pre school, the activities are much more directed at younger children" .... err maybe she should consider that that IS what pre-school is for ... young children.

Academic private school at 5 is always the way to go with these children. If that means you go back to weekend work and perhaps take a weekend job to do it. It's worth it. When the whole class if bright everyone is better off in the class.

I don't think dissecting insects is exactly "normal" - I don't think its something any of my kids have done. I don't think its that worrying either if its just insects and (crucially) they are dead before being dissected...

DD did love examining the insides of a fish the first time she had a large spit roasted fish complete with head (herbs in the stomach cavity) presented to her to eat... She was fascinated - the squeamishness about things like that is a learnt adult thing I think. However she would never have killed anything to dissect, and once she'd examined the fish it wasn't something she sought out to do again...

Killing insects is something innumerable people do daily just because they don't like them - I think nobody who has swatted a fly or (far worse) killed a harmless and useful spider just because they don't like them can throw the first stone labelling dissecting insects as worrying - but by the same token I am not sure it is something "most" kids do (most kids would rather observe living insects and keep them in a container with a lovingly prepared bed and choice of potential food, as a pet/ to observe then forget to free them and be distraught to find them dead 3 days later ).

Often children who are younger siblings are more ready for school because they have learned along with their older brothers / sisters. School will be used to differentiating for them, putting them for phonics with Yr 1 classes, differentiated work etc. Encourage your DS to focus on motor skills, stacking, balancing etc and games where you take turns or share as these are also really important skills, particularly if you're an only child.

Killing insects is something innumerable people do daily just because they don't like them

I suppose so, Schwabische. I don't myself, I go more for the escorting them off the premises approach, so I reserve the right to consider it unnecessary. But you're right, if it's something that's been found dead already, then it's not so bad.