To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

Hi there, I second the others that have said that you must remember that school is also about socialising and communication. Your son sounds quite similar to my son ( apart from the dissecting bit! ). My son is now 8 and has been ver unhappy at school since nursery. He has just been diagnosed as being on the Autistic Spectrum and is getting a lot of help with his communication skills through Speech and Language therapy. He is so much happier and engaged at school. I think if your son is not playing with the other kids at preschool it might be worth getting him assessed. I know some people are worried about having their kid labelled if a diagnosis is given but honestly Archie is so happy and relaxed now he's getting appropriate help it is totally worth it.

Haven't read the whole thread.
I used to work in schools both state and private.
The VERY clever kids in state school joined the older classes for some work.
In private school they put the Reception child in year two for everything bar pe/art type subjects.

My dd started school counting past 100 and was assessed as having a reading afluently, she too loved science. Interestingly now we have an sen diagnoses and she is struggling. :(

Can you afford an independent prep?

What the hell have I just wrote
*Was reading fluently and assessed as having a high reading age

I think social skills are as important as being book smart. Preschool is great for this and all the play seems pointless at times but it's amazing how much children benefit from that and how they develop learning skills. Some parents expect their children to learn just the academic stuff at preschool level and forget children at these age ranges learn better through play and nursery rhymes.

By all means encourage your DS natural ability to learn and he is obviously fortunate to be born book smart but please allow him to enjoy learning at a steady pace without too much pressure and just enjoy being a child.

My son was reading quite fluently at 2 years old, and learning things from books, such as dinosaur names, which I didn't know. I was embarrassed about it, in case others thought I was pushy, all I did was read to him a lot. However, I realised he was not emotionally or socially advanced, and needed to be with children his own age, so home schooling or being in a class of older children, on his level educationally, was not a solution. He is now a relatively normal 40 year old!
Children develop at different rates and equal out as they get older, don't worry about it.

I understand your problem. (There is nothing wrong with dissecting insects and fish btw- we dissected a pair of sheep's lungs in primary school and I loved it! I'm now a doctor. )
I don't know why you have posted this on a parenting forum. Modern parenting is apparently impossible to do in a way people who have never met you agree with. You are either neurotic or lazy, boasting or not encouraging enough.
No one knows your child like you do. Your child is unhappy. I would change things and see if this makes your child happier or more fulfilled.
If your child was struggling intellectually, everyone would berate you for abandoning your poor, struggling child. Some children need intellectual stimulation more than others. Aren't we all on a spectrum? I used to be picked on a bullied for my attainment and I found it really difficult and discouraging. I toned down my abilities and tried to fit in.
I am all for soft skills and I wanted my son to stay at home until preschool. Then I realised this wouldn't work and have signed up to Montessori nursery. However, yesterday I visited a highly academic pre-prep where they teach kids to read by 4. It would have been my idea of hell a year ago. But my son will love it. (He is 2 and can do lots of clever things which I won't list, but they are advanced compared to the average 2 year old-I am aware of childhood development).
That's the lesson of motherhood. Deal with the child you have not the one you want/wish you had. Intelligence can be a difficult 'gift' to bear sometimes, but you need to advocate for your child.

I think there is a lot going on here OP and that maybe you need to give some thought to the pre-school. If they are not providing a stimulating and interesting environment for your DS then you can look at other provision in the area and consider if you need to use a pre-school (I am sorry I am not clear how many hours you use etc.).

If your main concern is his lack of sociability then arrange to have friends over to play for an afternoon - one at a time and with some activity they can enjoy together.

If you are concerned he will be bored/ not stretched at school then ask about gifted and talented provision - ask if the school think it is appropriate, there are lots of websites and interesting articles on line if that becomes relevant.

It may be that he needs more support with the social side of school and if that is the case learning how to relax and play - and learn through play is going to help him, but he may need a more structured environment. All children are different and schools are always going to struggle to provide the right learning environment for all of them in one classroom. There is more attention paid to different needs but that is not always underpinned by enough funding to meet those needs.

As far as insects and dissecting fish - I am pretty sure I ate a few worms, squashed a fair few flies and I watched the man next door skin rabbits as a pre-schooler. I have no psychopathic tendencies and have never been a serial killer In fact I am a vegetarian leftie.

You are not being unreasonable in my opinion. My daughter was the same. She was bored at pre school because the other children didn't "get" what she was talking about, so she only spoke to the adults with whom she could hold a conversation. She is now at an academically selective prep school which is totally geared up to stimulating "smart" kids in an interesting and challenging way that is still suitable for their age. Our local state school would not have been challenging enough for her, and even they admitted that based on her pre school records they would have struggled to stretch her within their resources.

What I have focused on in your post is:
He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say he is withdrawn and not engaged.

The Preschool seem to be putting all the responsibility on him .. he is withdrawn ... he is not engaged. This rings warning bells in my mind.

My first child had a great experience at the pre-school attached to her primary school - my second did not - it turned out that the change in leadership in the interim at the preschool had massively changed the environment - to the extent that it went from getting an excellent HMIE report to getting a Satisfactory one and the teacher that headed up the preschool when my second child was there - a lovely person but not a very organised teacher - ended up being moved to another school.

You are doing a better job than me by carefully listening to your child - you know he loves to learn and is engaged in this but the preschool are seeing the opposite. I was a parent helper and helped at my second child's pre-school and got to see the problems first hand for e.g. no limiting of numbers at the sand pit / lego area as in my older child's day ..... there is a difference between free play and a scrum; no clear organisation on snack time; Whilst in an ideal world preschool should be a nurturing environment this is not always the case. So you need to continue getting your detective skills out and try and figure out as best you can what is the root of this ........... for e.g. when he says he is bored and he hates it what does this mean - is it frustration, anger, not taking part not knowing how to take part and then not doing anything and then becoming bored? At the same time what specifically does the preschool mean about him being withdrawn and not engaged - what happens / what is his context / how do they intervene, encourage, engage with him? If they are still putting blame on him and being defensive I would seriously consider looking into other options.

Hi, your child sounds amazing! My son had difficulties at nursery, he was quiet and withdrawn, he HATED the noise and what he said "babyish play". I spoke to the nursery teacher and she started giving him sheets of "work" to do, copying letters and words, writing sentences, he felt much happier then. When he started in the reception year of school he ended up working on his social skills, making friends and interacting with other children which is what he found hard. The work was easy for him, but I set him extra challenges once he got home. Just encourage him at all times and if you're concerned, talk to his teacher. Hope this helped.

If you can home educate, you will both have much more to gain than from a regular school where chances are he will be brought down to the common denominator. Otherwise, look for a Small School if you happen to be in one of the areas of the country where there is one.

You're getting a hard time, but I know what you're worrying about.

First, let him read! Nothing wrong with being a bit ahead!

Second Nursery needs to work with him a bit to get him socialising - I love ScoutFinch's idea of 'worksheets' - neither of my kids are dazzlingly brilliant, but giving DS2 work while DS1 is doing his homework keeps him very happy, and happy kids socialise better.

3rd, hopefully your local school is as good as DS1's - where the learning is very child-centred (it's just a normal state school). DS1 has awful writing, but he loves reading, and they're very good at supporting him both where he needs the extra help, and with what he's surging ahead at, and keeping the two balanced.

It's not all about play - it's about giving a child what they need to become fully rounded.

The curriculum is changing and children in foundation are now expected to meet YR1 objectives. It certainly isn't playing all day - that alone should give you some peace of mind when it comes to your high-flier. Also the teacher will differentiate accordingly, even in reception. If your child is ready to move on to objectives aimed at higher year groups that's what he'll be taught, probably through topic based work that the whole class can access. If he's ready to read then let him read. As a reception teacher I always loved it when children came in able to read as it meant there was so much learning open to them already. Lots of children come into foundation barely on phase 1 phonics where as others come in at phase 3/4 and they will be taught at their level. Honestly, don't worry about him. School is so much more than levels - just wish our government could see that.

Is the lack of social skills and the obsession with certain things eg insects causing you to think he may have ASD of some kind? What do nursery think about that? Our nursery were very good at getting children assessed early and the appropriate help put in place.
Good luck op.

Calm down. All will be well. My eldest is at Cambridge (via a v average comprehensive) and at aged 4 was reading a bit, but mainly playing with Lego, action figures and any pointy stick he could find. I have no idea if he could count to 100 or not. But he was quite a chatty, sociable little chap too.
Let the child be a happy child. And could he perhaps categorise insects instead of dissecting them? My boy was v keen on just naming minibeasts.

This is a sad sort of thread to read though I haven't read it all. Group social skills are not going to be everyone's forte and all the best evidence says the best way of supporting them is by following a child's leads, interests and values.

I have three little boys and my middle one is similar to yours OP in some respects.
At preschool he is also similar to your boy - he has absolutely zero interest in the other kids - barely can name many of them after a year - or anything of the activities there, so he tries to take himself off to just lie in cosy nooks or in the sunshine. Yet he has weekly playdate with a boy from playschool and they play brilliantly and interactively with eachother for two hours each week so I know it's not an issue with social awareness or interest. He's the same with his cousins and brothers. . Any sort of introversion these days is automatically seen as potential ASD - but you know, sometimes people are just... introverted.

I think sometimes we get a bit "Renaissance Man" about kids, trying to "round them out" and the like when usually, unless they're really miserable or engaging in antisocial behaviour on an ongoing basis, it's okay just to let them be who they are. Also agree strongly that you need to be your own principal witness. You know your son and what he needs.

And if he's as
Advanced as you say, why use that head start he has to perhaps add a musical
Instrument into the mix, or get him involved in a sport. Just make sure it's fun!

Tbh having a child who has social communication issues, I can't say that I would see school as been the primary way to improve his social skills.
The best that has been done for him is to encourage other children to include him in games. (One year with one teacher, nothing else otherwise). If the child needs more input and handholding, being in a group of children his age isnt going to make a big difference on its own.
Someone up thread was saying that learning to socialise can also be done with adults or older children etc... I agree with that.

And also Moomoo - if you posted about a four year old being demanding/domineering and wanting to talk endlessly about his own interests with a brain going faster than his mouth without saying you thought he was very bright everyone would pile in with stories about how their four year old is just like this. As you've mentioned he is quite bright, this will be interpreted as a difficulty with social skills. It's really not. They're absolutely egomaniacal at this age - and that's absolutely fine.

Have you considered your child may be autistic/aspergers? The lack of social interaction and thirst for knowledge reminds me of my step children and OH who are all on the spectrum. In which case you can get help and support for him. Something to look into. :) xxx

www.bbc.co.uk/schools/parents/gifted_and_talented/

He does need to learn that the world doesn't revolve around him, and as a grown up only child I mean this in the nicest way, not as a criticism of him or you! Only and eldest children get an awful lot of our parental attention by default. Perhaps build a bit more 'Mum's busy, you will have to play by yourself for an hour' time into the day, and mean it, and also playdates where you leave the children to it and don't get involved unless someone is in mortal peril! At 4 he should be able to choose an activity, take it out (lego, colouring etc) and get on with it without asking for your input as long as he's in a safe space. He could tell you what he did afterwards, what things were difficult, how he might do something different the next time etc. In the past even the most devoted stay at home parents probably had more stuff to get done during the day - there's a happy medium somewhere between not giving your child enough attention and giving him unlimited attention whenever he wants. He's also probably used to getting his own way just because there aren't so many conflicting opinions to take into account, so another skill he may need to learn is how to enjoy activities when he isn't in control of them. If he has only just learned about numbers beyond 10, then an abacus is a very appropriate activity, as are colouring and crafts all the way through early childhood, and these are universal activities for schools and nurseries, but he has to engage, and he won't if he's feeling hard done by in comparison to the usual amount of adult attention he is rewarded with at home.
By all means keep an eye on his core learning at school to ensure he is being challenged, and have a quiet word if he consistently comes home with pages of fully correct sums or literacy work that he is well past, but that is a conversation that should never happen in front of him. When he complains of being bored, make sure your response puts the onus on HIM to engage and entertain himself, and also explain that in a group setting not everyone has the same favourite activities so people have to take turns at doing the things they like best.
In this last term of nursery maybe a star chart based on feedback every day from his nursery on how well he participated would help? It would give him a better start at school if he understood that getting involved is much more fun than sulking on the sidelines, and (sorry to go all Oprah on you, but sometimes you gotta fake it to make it!!). If he forces himself to be happy and sociable for the star he will probably have a much better time than he is having now.
Personally I think the worst thing you could do is to give him any sense of being different or brighter than his peers. The gap between him and his peers may close quite dramatically over the school years and that can be a tough thing for children to deal with if their self esteem is heavily linked to being at the top of the academic pile. The world today requires a very broad skill set for success - even academics have to network, be politically able and be able to manage their own strengths and weaknesses. These seem to be the skills he needs to develop at the moment. Best of luck with school. I'm sure he'll love it!

Teaching of gifted children is something I have very strong feelings about. After witnessing several different approaches, I've come to the conclusion that there are pit falls in most approaches. If they are placed with older children, it is socially disastrous and if they are kept with their peers, there is a danger of them diengaging entirely fro the educational process, sometimes even becoming disruptive. I think the best approach is to stretch them laterally. Things like perfecting a musical instrument, playing chess, problem solving (give them a pile of junk and ask them to construct a structure, such as a bridge which can hold a certain weight), if they see a problem, ask them to come up with an inventive solution. I understand your concerns as gifted children need just as much support as those with special educational needs but are woefully underserved. Parents of children I've taught would proudly announce that they thought their child was gifted. I would assure them they were not and tell them that they should be thankful for that. Above average is great. Gifted is fraut with problems. His intellectual development may slow down but if not, there are people who can help. Many schools now have Gifted and Talented programs and you can also get advice from Mensa. They have activities for gifted children and you can meet other parents. I know many people may not understand how this can be a problem. Good luck and sorry about the long post.

Ou be careful mum... I had one of these and delighted in stimulating his obviously curious brain... he was reading at 3 (only because we'd read Thomas the Tank books together every flaming night... he started to recognise the words then he was off... still to this day LOVES reading)
I loved how hungry and curious his mind was. But I wonder now if you can exhaust this and itcan backfire.
At 12 my son has now kinda given up trying and is now questioning the point of education and homework! (Some of this is hormones, some probably a neg reaction to his nan dying and me having breast cancer this past year!)
My 12 year old just wants to have fun (it is in short supply around here!)

His nursery school were brilliant, best times of his life so far as there was zero pressure on him to 'perform' or be The Clever One. He had a blast. (But they balanced play/lessons really well... taught them French! (all of which he has since forgotten!)

At Primary they corralled him and 4 other brainiacs into a 'Gifted and Talented' register... sat them all together. Gave them extra work to keep them interested.
Sound good?
Nope, in retrospect I think this was a disaster and the start of what has now grown into serious performance anxiety in my boy. He became anxious about not being good enough/getting 'moved off the table'.

He hung out with his brainiac buddies and they all developed a bit of an attitude that they were super smart and the other kids were not.
OK, so probably no different to lads who are super good at footie lording about the playground... but they effectively pissed off a lot of their less 'gifted' peers, and because they stuck in a group none of them learned to mix and socialise well.

My son loved sport though (I deagged him to rugby for 5 years!) and he did manage to get 'in' with The Football Boys, who invited him to join their team (oh the joy!), but he had no idea how to deal with the banter/criticism that goes hand in hand with footie, and ended up upset a lot of the time, eventually quitting the team because some of the less pleasant boys told him he was crap at football. Same thing has just happened at his senior school.

He is super bright but I can see lacks social skills. I'd swap some of his IQ for a confident happy boy who can walk into a crowd of lads down the park and have a laugh playing footie.
Confidence and the ability to get on with others is far more valuable gift than being able to spell big words or dissect a fish at 4 (?? WTF initiated that hobby? I'd be a little worried!)

I would advise you focus on teaching you boy to have fun and make friends at this age, you cannot teach it later. Balance it out a bit.
(All work no play will make Jack a dull boy! Trust me!)

If you are concerned speak to your prospective Primary school's head teacher about Gifted and Talented program. Think all schools have this. (Great for their Ofstead scores;)