Am I a bitch? I don't want DD sleeping over with these people!

[thenappyslayer]

DD is 9 and has been invited to a sleepover at the home of parents who I'm not keen on. Their kids are really really lovely!!! The sweetest most quiet little things you will ever meet.

As for the parents....I certainly wouldn't want my child staying in their home over night.

These poor kids are always waiting outside the betting shop after school, their shirt collars are always filthy, both have rotten teeth, the mother smokes over the pram of her newborn and the father has a foul mouth. He's always shouting at his kids for no reason and seems to have a mobile phone pressed to his ear indefinitely.

I've told DD no and said it's because she has to go to her grandparents on Saturday and we just would not make it back in time. Her and this kid are fairly close. DD feels left out etc as all the other invited kids are going and yesterday when asked by the mum hosting if DD was coming, I gave the grandparents excuse.

I felt guilty fibbing but what was I supposed to say? She seemed to feel snubbed and was quite snappy but I didn't take it personally considering I just lied to her face. I do have some shame.

Im sure you're thinking "well if the other parents are okay with it surely you're just exaggerating what these people are like". That's the thing. The other parents aren't as bad but are pretty close. I actually feel quite alienated.

Yes I come from the "nice bit" of the area, yes this was not our first choice of primary school but I'm NOT a snob. I come from a working class background (grew up on a notorious council estate from HELL until 15 when it was demolished ) as do all of my dearest friends.

Anyway...

Again this morning the bloody sleepover came up with 3 other mums. I gave my excuse. One of the mums said "of course you cant come" and gave the others a look. Then another mum said "well her grandparents will be there next weekend". It caught me off guard and I just gave another shitty clumsy excuse. I'm sure it was obvious I was lying. The kids went in and as I excused myself I was given looks that could have killed pigeons in mid air. Don't those women have bloody lives? I found the premise of the exchange oddly nosey/bitchy for grown women. Well, they average at around 26 (with 9 year olds) but you catch my drift.

It was only literally a 1 minute exchange but it did bother me a little. I don't want to come across as an uppity bitch who looks down on the chavy mums at the local primary school but I just don't have anything in common with them at all.

Have any of you ever really liked a kid but have not been keen on the parent?

Even though the mum was being snappy she did look hurt. I feel shitty.

I agree, it sounds as though the Op has made her decision. I think people are riled by the sweeping assumptions made based on

• the age of the parent
• their social class
• whether they smoke
• their wealth

and their possible lack of education.

It's worth noting that they are plenty of well spoken, wealthy, well dressed people that are awful parents.

KoreanLady, an unsolicited comment about a stranger's social choices would indeed be rude.

Do you walk up to people who aren't in your circle and say "So we're not good enough for you to hang around with, eh?" What on earth would be the point? Anyone doing that would simply be making a fool of herself.

Just seen all the age related comments. That's a bit unfair. I know some great young parents and some not great older parents. If you don't know the family and don't want to send your kid don't. That's all.

KoreanLady, an unsolicited comment about a stranger's social choices would indeed be rude.

The pointed comment would be about who I am not about their choices. You're being presumptuous and argumentative.

The OP could have easily asked this question without so many derogatory and snobbish judgements.

Of course it isn't unreasonable to not want your child to sleep at a house where parenting ability is in question. The rest of the OP is just goady inflammatory bullshit.

Thanks again for the advice and I'm really sorry to all I've offended.

Just to be clear (although I think some of you are set on just trolling.....)

I grew up on a very rough council estate in inner city London with needles in the playground, stabbings more frequent than the post man and gangs everywhere. I only mentioned the differences in our life circumstances now as I am well aware that they may feel judged by me because I do live differently at this point in my life. At this point only. It is a part of the story. As you can see, despite me saying that I come from an estate (that my parents still live on) and that my dearest friends from childhood are "working class", it's like some people on this thread are obsessed with being nasty and creating a post out of thin air that suits their needs for an excuse to troll.

The assumptions on here are crazy - I never once said the kids were dirty because they were working class. I simply said they were dirty. Thats it. That's all. I mentioned class because it's no secret that we live in a socio-economically diverse area, but it is segregated. I am older than many of the mums in DD's class and it's obvious. I do appear to have more money than the parents in DD's class and it's obvious. Sometimes I feel just as judged by them as they may by me. That's why I outlined our differences in the post. People less well off can also and DO ALSO make sweeping assumptions about those better off too you know. Being judgemental goes both bloody ways.

I only meant that despite being young they should know better than to be so callous and petty. Does age have anything to do with knowing better? Perhaps not. I do believe that a certain degree of maturity comes with age and life experience and don't feel as though I'm Lord Voldemort for thinking so.

I never ever ever once said the women who were nasty to me were bad parents. I never mentioned anything about their kids. I only spoke on the parenting of one set of parents. I apologized several times about the age comment and explained what I meant - is linking maturity to age ageist? Yes. I'll take the digs at me bringing their age into their maturity but I wasn't suggesting that because they were teen mums that they were bad mums. I was simply commenting on their manners. You can have bad manners and be a good parent. And mentioning that they had 9 year olds was me pointing out that they've been around other mums long enough to know whats polite and what isn't. There are certain things you just don't ask about / do to other parents. For example we were on a school trip and we picked the kids up from the venue as opposed to school and one of the mums in the same group asked a white lady with a black child who CLEARLY was calling the lady mum "is he yours then?". She's 26 years old she should know better.

I feel like some posters have taken that comment and have rrrraaaaaaaannnnn with it. It was a silly thing to say as I wouldn't appreciate a 45 year old saying to me I'm immature because I'm younger than them etc....I am not even an "older mum" as I had DD at 26. I'm just older than them thats all.

Had this been a conversation in real life and I made that comment and apologized everyone would have graciously said it's fine - just try not to judge. No one would be saying things like cunt and fuck off to my face. But not on Mumsnet. It's a place where someone can call you judgemental and rude as though they are better......then a cunt in the same sentence. Very strange.

I never mentioned where these people live, or whether they worked or not, or whether they had any money. Many of you have chimed in about your backgrounds as though I alluded to theirs beyond the fact they smoke, gamble and the kids have rotten teeth/ dirty school clothes. What's hilarious is that the council has given this family a beautiful victorian which is bigger than my own home but you assume I look down on them because they are "from an estate" despite me saying no such thing. I simply spoke about their behaviour. I don't care where you live as long as my child is safe and in an appropriate environment be that a council estate or a mansion.

If DD was in private school and the mum smoked over her child's pram I would be concerned. Rich people gamble too! If DD was in private school and the dad was always placing bets leaving the kids outside the betting shop I'd be concerned. If DD was in private school and the father drove up in a 100k BMW screaming at his kids because the stock market is stressing him out I'd be concerned.

I'm being called a snob yet because I mentioned the term working class some of you assume these people are scroungers living in high rises. I never ever ever said such a thing. You also assume DD doesn't socialise with them when this post is about a sleep over and a sleep over only. This is an isolated incident. I just would prefer for DD to be around the parents with me present.

DH and I went to visit an independent school as we were considering 10+ next year. We didn't like the vibe of the school or parents in attendance at the open day.

I dug myself out of poverty and still get raised eyebrows at work when asked what secondary school I went to, or where I grew up, or what school DD is in now; "Is that state?" I know what snobbery is, and it's not acknowledging when a child has a dirty collar, or when a mum is smoking over her pram.

They all sound a bit grim. Any possibility of changing school?

And mentioning that they had 9 year olds was me pointing out that they've been around other mums long enough to know whats polite and what isn't.

It was going alright until this. At least make sure you don't lie.

They average around 26 (with 9 year olds) but you catch my drift - This is what you said and you and I both know that was not a comment on being mums long enough to know what's polite. At least be truthful op. It's just embarrassing trying to squirm out of it.

To be fair if the parent had a 500k income I'd still not be happy with them not looking after their kids.

Exactly that re the 500k income. The OP has made it very clear what her concerns are and they are all valid. Be honest, why would anyone be happy to send their precious child to the home of people who clearly neglect their own children.

I thought you said the estate had been razed?

Off to check.

She did say it was demolished.

PaulAnkaTheDog I always have thought like that. It's like someone with a 6 year old saying they don't know how to change a nappy. What are you talking about? You've bloody got a six year old!!!
Furthermore I only mentioned their age pertaining to the bitchy incident. I can see how the 9 year olds could be taken as snobbery against being a young but lets say I was a snob because they were teen mums that doesn't mean i think they are bad mums
Oh and I'm not a huge fan of teenage pregnancy and I certainly wouldn't have had DD at 16 if I could help it. That doesn't mean that I think they are bad mums or that I would have been a bad mum. Its hardly ideal, and in some cases, responsible!! But that goes with many things in life. I have a 36 year old friend who is broke and who wants another baby. She asked for my opinion and I said I just don't think you can afford it right now. Kill me nooooooowwww.
I'll take that the 9 hear old comment sounded judgemental but even so being a bit uppity about teenage pregnancy is hardly the same as saying someone is a bad parent. Saying someone is a bad parent is quite a serious thing. I didn't even call these people in question bad parents - I JUST DONT WANT DD IN THEIR HOME OVERNIGHT.

Welcome to Mumsnet OP.

Yes it was demolished.....and where do you think they rehoused us????? In fucking Buckingham palace???????????????

Apologies OP it was the 'It was demolished' then the subsequent 'My parents still live there' that threw people a bit.

SO DONT SEND HER THEN,!!!!

There's your answer.

Nappyslayer You make a very valid point, people who are less well off do make sweeping assumptions about those that are well off too.
I'm sorry you felt attacked, I think a lot of posters fancied a lively debate based very loosely on your thread. I wouldn't take it personally.

YANBU OP, they don't sound like the sort of people you'd want your DD associating with so I don't blame you for making excuses. In fact if I were you I'd probably actively try to encourage DD to not be friends with the girl.

Sorry. Bad grammar. I come from "estates". Both the one I was born in and the one we got rehoused into which my parents live in today. Less drugs same amount of gang violence. Dad has been mugged twice.

SamanthaBrique No, the little girl is lovely. So quiet and well mannered and sweet. Always looking after her brother and the other smaller children. I can't say one bad word against the kids not one. You'd think they'd have behavioural problems. I suppose being as quiet and meek as they are could be different form of behavioural issues though - I suspect it's down to fear of their parents. But again I only suspect. Some kids really are quiet and shy.