JF96 YNWA

[Bearlyknitted]

27 years. Justice at last.

Sundefender but it WAS lazy journalism! The original story has no named attributions, only "a police officer said". There was no fact checking, or quotes from people who were there showing any other side of the story. Incredibly lazy, and extremely irresponsible.

You're right sundefender, perhaps today isn't the day to debate it, particularly under such a poorly thought out NC.

The images the Sun printed of people dying were utterly sickening.

How can you possibly defend that?

The only bit I agree with is the role played by high ranking Police officers lying to journalists. They do need to face up to that and it will be interesting to see if or what criminal cases are brought in the light of today.

I bloody hate the Sun. And any other lazy journalism in any 'paper' that reports garbage as 'truth'

NC was poorly thought out but that's what happens when you rush things I guess - I would query that The Sun has ever been popular in the North West - it simply hasn't. However I agree that this is a debate for another day and will accept that. My comments were never meant to detract from today's verdict which I wholeheartedly welcome.

Oh dear Kelvin Mackenzie

Where is that personal responsibility we are always hearing you advocate Because you didnt show much of it on Channel 4 News.

You remember personal responsibility dont you? That thing that you and the tabloids you are/have worked for are always extolling the virtues of in your articles and soundbites......oh wait i get it. You think personal responsibility is only for football fans/benefit claimants/tax credit claimants/ social housing tenants.

Personal responsibility doesnt extend to you does it you special snowflake you!

You bloody hypocrite McKenzie.

Sad and scary to think how easily the lies were accepted but guess Heysel happened and then the behaviour of football fans at the times/how they were seen part of the reason why the lies were accepted so easily by others.That and who thought police and people would lie the to extent that they did.

Shouldn't have taken as long as it has for the truth to come out but at long last it has and hats off to those who fought for it to have this day finally come

Kelvin seems to think he's some kind of victim in all this.
Maybe if he was not so keen to believe the outrageous claims of the "police source", maybe if he noticed the "shock and silence" of other staff in the office as the draft of his disgraceful, deceitful front page was put together (the front page which showed his photo, such was his belief in those statements) maybe things would be different. Or he can blame the police.

sundefender sales of the sun were about 55,000 copies pre Hillsborough and in 2005 it 'recovered' to 12,000.

I'm amazed, when I lived there you rarely saw it for sale in newsagents and it was only supermarkets and chains that sold it.

Fair play to the people of Liverpool for not forgiving of forgetting the injustices done to them and the people who died.

Whilst I have zero sympathy for Kelvin McKenzie I do think the majority of the blame and revulsion should lie at the feet of the senior police officers and the likes of Irvine Patnick. They are the ones that provided the made up bollocks masquerading as information.

I hope the criminal enquiries haul each and every person still alive who played any part in the cover up to account. That's the very least those families deserve now.

Tiredbutfuckingfine You only have to look at some of the threads on here to see how easily working class people are demonized and disbelieved.

I don't disagree, but the Sun didn't have to (nor should they) have published unverified information from a single anonymous source as 'the truth' whilst 90 odd people lay in morgues.

A snippet from Kenny Dalglish's autobiography:

"Kelvin MacKenzie, the Sun's editor, even called me up.

"'How can we correct the situation?" he said.

"'You know that big headline - 'The Truth',' I replied. 'All you have to do is put 'We lied' in the same size. Then you might be all right.'

"Mackenzie said: 'I cannot do that.'

"'Well,' I replied, 'I cannot help you then.' "

Ffs, 95 people were dead and countless others injured at the point those headlines were made. Was their not one tiny little part of him that hesitated before writing them?

Didn't matter did it? Worthless scouse scum was all they were to him.

I was pretty much identical age to what my DD is now (4) when Hillsborough happened. My dad had a ticket for the match but had to give up for some reason. I thank God for that.

I followed the coverage today with tears in my eyes and relief in my heart for the 96 and their courageous families.

JFT96 YNWA

Proud to be from Liverpool this day and always.

I found the BBC coverage just now extremely moving and am sitting here with tears running down my face.

Justice at last. At long last.

When groups of people are demonised based on stereotypes - especially where the drunk, unruly, football hooligan stereotype meets the feckless, ticketless, thieving scouser stereotype, those groups of people will be mistreated.
Those people didn"t matter to the police on the day, they were "just hooligans" and the glee with which McKenzie was able to prove the stereotypes were true - he couldn't decide whether the headline would be "you scum" or "the truth"- betrays the prejudice already held by many in society.
But you know how scousers are- always whingeing and playing the victim.

Proud to be a whingeing victim, because those whingeing victims took on the establishment and won and I know of God forbid anything like that ever happened to me, they've got my back.

How many places would that be true of? Not many.

YY Tired that is precisely why i dont believe the old "lessons will be learned" trope Because i dont think anything will be learned and a tragedy could happen again.

Many tenants in social housing are concerned about the way gas safety is being implemented and no one in power is listening.

Instead of investigating an extremely important event, The Sun printed what was essentially police propaganda. The South Yorkshire police were far too friendly with Thatcher's government; The Sun was far too friendly with both. They relinquished any claim to be a neewspaper in the way they dealt with that story; they acted as a propaganda sheet. It was disgraceful. McKenzie should be ashamed: as a human being; as a journalist.

The BBC coverage was very moving, HeartsTrumpDiamonds. I am so proud of the friends and relatives for what they have achieved.

I had no trouble understanding the thread title. BBC coverage on the 10 o'clock news was very strong I thought.

newsnight coverage is pretty good too.

"The images the Sun printed of people dying were utterly sickening."

I actually think this images such as this front page from the Mirror (WARNING -DISTURBING IMAGE) :

www.flickr.com/photos/jm999uk/2872998856/sizes/l/

are necessary to convey the full horror to an otherwise complacent reader sitting comfortably in their armchair. Facts and figures are all very well, but that picture - which I remember well from the time (my dad took the Mirror, for his sins), appalled and horrified me and brought home to me the sheer terror in a way that mere figures couldn't. People need to be outraged about something like this.

Notice Trevor Hicks' words in the subheadline - "I BLAME THE POLICE FOR THIS" two days after the disaster. At the last the law agrees.

JFT96 YNWA

I was eleven a few days before but I distinctly remember that front page image. It was the Mirror (obviously) because it was the paper my parents bought.

A week later we went to a memorial mass at church. I remember two lads in Liverpool shirts, big, burly lads they were. Bruised, battered, one in an arm cast. They sobbed. I'll never forget that. I felt wretched for them.