JF96 YNWA

[Bearlyknitted]

27 years. Justice at last.

27 years is far too long and I hope there are prosecutions of those who colluded in this.

Until we stop labelling people we will never be a society. It lets those in power diminish and destroy.

Oh, mammamic, you devious cowbag*, you have been nice and reasoned and dignified and thoroughly shown me up for being peevish, which I completely deserve. I am sorry for being ratty, and please don't bog off, especially since we aren't even disagreeing with each other.

*= don't actually mean that.

Thanks WindPowerRanger. I try to be as factual as possible and luckily it's worked. I was also ratty on an earlier post in the thread because of someone's name - happens to everyone sometimes. I'm glad we understand each other better.

TBH, I don't often post on MN. I read lots of threads as they're really interesting but I don't make comment unless I feel very strongly as I invariably end up pissing people off without meaning to. I try to stay as factual as possible when responding to ppl without emotions but still annoy people. It's a WIP. I am a really nice person - honest

empra given Andy Burnham mentioned brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, fathers but not mothers I'm assuming your friend did survive.

Stick around, mam, the revolution starts here.

A few hours ago the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police, David Crompton, was suspended. Having a look around I found this:

neilwilby.com/2016/03/01/david-crompton-the-south-yorkshire-police-years/

Neil Wilby has an axe to grind but assuming even half of his piece is correct then David Crompton should never have been appointed to the post.

Queryonmurdoch I was neither

I lectured no one. I posted my story of what JFT96 means to me and what recent events mean to me. At no point did I lecture anyone and I certainly did not talk about what this means to Merseyside. I talked about what this means to me. what I think this result means to our nation.

I don't want to argue with you but I will say that I stand by my original comment regarding your name on this thread. The fact that you are from Liverpool, irrationally, has made me even sadder. As I said originally, I didn't fully read your posts - I didn't have the courage to simply because I saw S-nDefender. It was like a slap in the face.

And I even gave the benefit of the doubt and, again, I stick by it. It was naive of you to not realise that such a name would disturb some posters.

I've very envious that you are in Liverpool. It must have been amazing to be amongst all those united people. Doesn't happen very often any more.

Everyone's thoughts and feelings are valid. How we choose to interpret them is sometimes wrong or skewed. As I posted to someone else I offended, I don't often get involved in these threads, though I like reading them, for exactly this reason. I'll type my frantic posts and then refrain from hitting 'post message' when I can - maybe there'll be less offence caused that way.

've very envious that you are in Liverpool. It must have been amazing to be amongst all those united people. Doesn't happen very often any more."

I feel the same. This kind of solidarity and unison would never happen down in the south and i speak as a southerner.

Mamm i like your posts I hope you decide to post on this site more often

buddah so true
I remember on holiday as teenagers, some other lads of a similar age were seen with a knife. They used it to break into one of our rooms (scratches round the lock) They were not with parents, but were with social workers. Words were had with the adult/social workers about the knife, the breaking in and note, and all the Social Workers said was "yes but where are you from?.......Liverpool.... exactly". Like you can just disregard concerns about knives, breaking into rooms, risks to underage girls because we all know what scousers are like

Queryonmurdoch your posts are misplaced and naive at best. This is not the thread to be discussing your wide-eyed innocent comments. What you are clearly trying to say is that you believe that Liverpool fans who have Sky are hypocritical.

There are better forums to express your views. Try the comments section of the Sun where you may find more likeminded people to share your thoughts.

FoundNeverland -

If you think that rubbing people up the wrong way or asking awkward questions is naive or irresponsible then you fail to understand the Liverpool mindset - the WHOLE reason we are here today is because people in my city will ask awkward questions and are not be afraid of how they will be labelled and how they are perceived by those who believe we should "accept what we have been given"

I am Liverpudlian- I am awkward and proud and I will not apologise to you or anyone else for being so.

There are not wider forums to express my views - I post on MN - I try to post without offending people and I believe my questions are still valid.

Mammamic - I don't want to argue with you either. Today has been truly special and there is a very odd atmosphere in the city - a mix of relief, grief and anger - but I do believe we lessen ourselves by not asking the wider question. I agree with you that there are better people than me to ask those questions and phrase them in the right way.

Queryonmurdoch Don't patronise me by inferring that I don't understand the Liverpudlian mindset. I have family who live in Liverpool and my husband, 15 years old at the time, was at Hillsborough.

You have come on this thread to be deliberately inflammatory. Your comments are not needed and are verging on offensive. Please go and defend The Sun wherever you wish but it is in very poor taste to do so on a thread such as this.

For me, Hilsborough shows the best and worst of humanity. The worst is obviously Police looking on while people die and doing nothing and then compounding the grief of the families by going to extraordinary lengths to cover their failings and smearing the dead in the process.
The best is the fans tearing down advertising hoardings to make stretchers, all those doing CPR on the victims, the off duty Policeman who tried to save Victoria Hicks and, of course, the families of the 96 who have campaigned for 3 decades for justice for their loved ones.
I am totally in awe of Trevor and Jenni Hicks. If I'd lost both my children, I honestly don't think I would have the strength to carry on living, let alone spending 27 years fighting for justice. They are the personification of the love of a parent.
Hilsborough is living proof that ordinary people can take on the establishment and win.
JFT96

Foundneverland - well don't patronise me either.

I have not come on to be deliberately inflammatory - you are taking offence where non exists.

I did not come on this thread to defend the Sun - but to query why The Sun was given the bulk of vitriol when Murdoch, politicians, the police and others weren't.

Where else can I post my comments?

I came to this thread to say something else entirely but ahead of that, please see this link
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19517624

I am a Liverpool supporter who lived for many years in the area. I have never purchased The Times under Murdoch, or subscribed or watched Sky and have certainly never purchased the other newspaper, although, to be honest, I would never have purchased it from its inception, not a rag such as that.

All this apart and with due respect to the 96 dead, their relatives, friends and colleagues, who've been talked about above, I did come to post RIP to Stephen Whittle, whose death in 2012 is probably little known about. This tells his sad story
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-97th-hillsborough-victim-fan-sold-ticket-to-friend-who-died-in-disaster-8142470.html and demonstrates some of the forgotten and wider consequences of this awful event.

There are still match day chants, still on line trolling. I've seen some myself even today but now the truth is finally acknowledged, I hope the record is set straight at last and any right thinking person will understand, accept and believe what happened that day.

What's needed is for everyone to challenge misreporting and ill informed opinion such as this demonstrates LINK to Empire of the Kopp and to hope that the legal process continues beyond suspending David Crompton.

I should also say that many rival clubs and fans have been wholeheartedly supportive and for that they are thanked and admired.

I'm not entering into further discussion with you Queryonmurdoch, if you really don't understand why posting on this thread under than name Sundefender isn't inflammatory I'm clearly not going to be able to convince you otherwise.

The fact that you would do this and then say you are a Liverpudlian just makes me sad.

Sorry for the thread derail everyone else. YNWA.

Enrique- that is heartbreaking. Imagine living like that, feeling responsible.His poor family. R.I.P Stephen- you were not to blame, you were never to blame. You are a in the sky

It shows that there have been many casualties of Hillsborough- directly or indirectly. A senseless tragedy.

FoundNeverland

I explained and apologised for my NC 24 hours ago - you have brought it up again.

Liverpudlians are not some cliché that thinks with one voice or from one viewpoint (nor are Geordies, Londoners, Brummies or any one else by the way)

It was this labelling and idea that we were all alike - that was propagated by lazy journalists in the first place.

I am Liverpudlian and proud to ask awkward questions. If you think less of me because of that then I can't alter your opinions. However I will not be told what I should "feel" by those who think they know better

By telling me I'm obviously not able to think for myself you sully me and those who ask genuine and heartfelt questions.

I looked on the Wiki page which said that 3 people who survived committed suicide. Another survivor spent 8 years on a psychiatric ward. And there was a very high rate of drug and alcohol addiction amongst those who survived. There was probably a much poorer understanding of PTSD in those days- there must be hundreds of fans who are still suffering from what they witnessed.

MissHoolie- Awful statistics-probably not surprising.

Sorry Queryonmurdoch had to respond. You were the one who brought up the 'Liverpool mindset thus suggesting that Liverpudlians are a homogenous group. I didn't infer that anywhere at all.

You are being disingenuous and again, this is not the forum! This isn't a place for that. In fact, just that this is clearly uppermost in your mind following the events of the past two days illustrates the type of person you are.

And again, you really are a patronising individual. Your last sentence speaks volumes.

I, as I'm sure many others today, are tearful and unbelieving of today's and yesterday's events and that your response is 'why is everyone mean to The Sun' is frankly astonishing. As if that should even be an issue ever. I feel ashamed of myself for even entering into this argument.

To reiterate, I find your wide eyed innocence abhorrent.

I am not from Liverpool-in fact I couldn't have been brought up further away if I had tried-but have been completely overwhelmed by the strength and dedication shown by the people of Liverpool over the last 27 years. God bless you all. This verdict means so much to the whole country, of course, but this is justice that should never have had to be fought for so hard. I'm a head teacher and today this was the subject of our assembly by year six-truth, dignity, honour, endeavour. At the end, the song the children had chosen to sing was You'll Never Walk Alone. I was worried in case not many would know the words but I have honestly never heard our assembly hall resonate as loudly. Please never think that people outside Liverpool didn't support you because the majority of decent people did and do, and salute your achievement.

Raahh it's tragic.

Many of us will never forget the terror and the trauma of that afternoon. Trying to get information if we weren't there. I wasn't bereaved that day, but know others who were. There but for the grace as they say and it was all avoidable.

I think it's so important to acknowledge the wider grief and wider implications as well as what's been well documented in the media over the last 27 years. What happened to Stephen is so awful to think about, that poor man and his poor family There will be others whose lives have been impacted and changed for ever.

This is the best article I have seen on the verdict.Not a football disaster, a national disgrace

I am just back from St George's Hall, too late for the service but lots of people still around paying respects and showing solidarity. 96 candle-lit lanterns are burning on the steps, there are flowers everywhere and scarfs and shirts wrapped on lamp-posts. Very moving.

Proud of my adopted city. YNWA.