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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Housework - who ibu?

370 replies

nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 12:44

I am 25 and getting married to my boyfriend of five years this summer. He is fantastic, and I love him very much. Pretty much the only problem in our relationship arises out of arguments about housework.

I am a really messy person. On top of this, I am currently working as a trainee solicitor in a big London firm, which means that I often don't get in til 9 or 10pm, sometimes have to work weekends. So I have a limited amount of free time, which I don't want to spend doing housework.

My fiancé, on the other hand, is pretty houseproud, and mess stresses him out. I try to accommodate him, and am a lot tidier than I would otherwise be. I also pay for a cleaner to come weekly. He still does more housework though. However, he has a lot more free time than me - he has been at home finishing his phd for a while, and now he has finished it, he is brushing up his coding skills (a different area from his phd) before beginning a job in that area in a few months time (he already has the job). I think this is a good career move and support him in it. I supported him financially through the last year of his phd, and am still supporting him now (ie I pay rent/council tax/food bills/going out etc). I'm happy to do this, and he is really working hard getting his skills up to speed and is definitely not just lazing around the house while I'm at work.

But my fiancé still just brings up my messiness a lot. For example, there will often be a buildup of my breakfast/dinner stuff in the sink (my bf washes up as he goes). I also often just leave stuff lying round -- eg my make up on the sofa after I apply it in the morning then rush out without putting it away, coffee cups round the living room, clothes in a pile on the chair in our room rather than put away etc etc. Nothing major, but definitely quite a bit of general mess. My fiancé thinks that this stuff is completely unreasonable and that I'm completely selfish for not being tidier.

My view is that (1) it's my flat too, and he has to accept that we'll be meeting in the middle mess-wise, (2) I am working very hard at a job, and it's unreasonable to expect me to also spend ages on housework, when this is something I fundamentally don't give a shit about and (3) I am contributing a lot by paying the rent and bills, so even if he ends up doing more housework than me, it's still a fair split.

The problem is that when I raise the fact that I am paying bills he gets very upset, and tells me that I'm trying to control him financially, and that if it was a man telling a woman this I'd be up in arms etc. I just don't know what's right. I do make an effort, but I'm not going to transform into a really tidy person, and I feel he should cut me some slack. I also acknowledge that he is putting every effort into increasing his future earning potential, but also feel that my current financial contribution shouldn't count for nothing either.

We seem to spend so much of our time arguing about this, and it's bringing me down. Any views or advice would be appreciated! Sorry this is so long....

OP posts:
Marynary · 24/04/2016 15:41

I do respect his studying - his book is amazing and I'm extremely proud of him. It's more of a "a room of one's own" type situ -- i would just like some acknowledgement that he was able to do this thing for his personal fulfilment because he had a dp willing to fund it.

From what you say though he wasn't doing it just for "personal fulfilment". He hoped to be able to use it for a career in academia. Even if he doesn't go into academia the PhD will still probably enhance his job prospects and career. If you hadn't have funded it he would probably have signed on to finish as a lot of other people do.

whois · 24/04/2016 15:47

I do want things to be equal. it's just hard to work out what equal is...

I think you'll be fine. Get the two baskets for the living area and the bedroom. Wash up your cup and plate in the morning. Have a frank chat at a time when you're both calm. Acknowledge the mess annoys him and describe the steps you've taken to rectify this. Say you're struggling to balance work and home. Ask him how he sees the partnership working in the near term so that you both get through this stressful time. siggest he goes to a library / coworking soace / cafe for his 'working' time during the day so that the small flat isn't both his work and rest environment (as that is probably exacerbating the situation).

nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 15:48

It's true that he was still holding out a candle for academia in the final year, but he had basically realised that it wasn't a realistic option for him (very niche dissertation topic, sub-field with literally one or two jobs coming out each year in the UK) and definitely went into preparing the book manuscript thinking on the basis that it would be a good thing in itself rather than as a career investment. In fact, his plan was to apply for management consultancy jobs when his funding ran out (since those firms specifically recruit phds), but I said that if he wanted he could spend the year working on the book and then apply the following year. But the following year he decided he was more interested in coding, so set about learning that from scratch.

OP posts:
nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 15:49

thanks whois - that's good advice. Lots of other really helpful advice and insights on here which I'll be thinking about and trying to take on board.

OP posts:
FlyingScotsman · 24/04/2016 15:50

So what he wants is an equal relationship where he is only looking after 'his' stuff and not yours. So he is doing 'his washing up' not yours, then moan you haven't done it even though yooou have less time and then think it's a slippery slop to what? Him doing more HW Shock]hmm]

Dies it mean when yoou do the washing and ironing yoou only do yours? Or when you do the shopping it's only yours and not his???

An equal relationship doesn't mean 50/50 all the time, nor does it mean only doing yoour stuff.
I would be worried about his way of looking at it

AskingForAPal · 24/04/2016 15:52

Pale - just what I was thinking about cocklodging!

To me it just sounds an incredibly graceless and ungenerous way for him to behave. He obviously thinks what's yours is his when it comes to money, but what's yours is yours when it comes to your clothes, dishes etc. You sound like a person ready to be married as you share everything with him. He doesn't, very sadly.

JennyHolzersGhost · 24/04/2016 15:53

I was going to be the first to say cocklodger but I see Pale got there before me.

OP you are doing an incredibly difficult job, a lot of people on this thread just don't understand how hard it is. You deserve support from him. I'm not saying there are no circumstances in which one childless, unmarried partner should entirely financially support the other but in the absence of ill-health or temporary unemployment I'd find it hard to deal with myself personally.

In your position I'd probably say ok fair enough I will do everything 50/50 and leave nothing undone at any time but in exchange for that you are going to start earning £ right now as I want our finances to be 50/50 too. Though that is obviously a childish and unhelpful thing to say Grin
I wouldn't be able to help it though. He is being very unreasonable and I'd be reconsidering the financial arrangements if I were you. I know you say he's got something lined up for a few months' time but he could certainly pick up casual or part time work in the meantime. For example if he's so bright I'm sure he could get tutoring work.

AskingForAPal · 24/04/2016 15:54

X-post with Flying

BikeGeek · 24/04/2016 15:57

I don't think either of you are being unreasonable, you just have totally different thoughts on what are acceptable standards.

I'm not a tidy as you go along person, I'm a make a unholy mess and then tidy up later sort of person. Luckily the OH is on the same page so we rub along nicely. Personally I don't think I could ever live with someone who got stressed by a bit of mess.

One of my friend's actually broke up with her fiancee over similar issues. No magazines to be left on coffee tables, washing up immediately after eating, not watch 30 mins of TV and do the washing up after etc. She said she realised she'd never be comfortable in her own home living with someone who was that obsessed about keeping things tidy.

FlyingScotsman · 24/04/2016 15:58

I don't agree with whois approach.
This would be saying he is right to have a 50/50 approach that means he will NOT do anything for her.

My question is the same than before
OP do you only do 'your' things when you do the shopping or the washing or do you do his things too?
How are yoou going to live together in the long run if his default attitude is a yours/mine stuff?
He is happy for you to share finances. Why is he not happy to share the workload in the house? Is it because in one case, it benefits him whereas in the other he has to make an effort?

Owllady · 24/04/2016 15:59

I think if he's not working its only fair he does the majority of the housework. Fair enough you need to put your mug in the dishwasher etc, that goes without saying.
Aren't all twenty five years olds less stressed about this kind of stuff?

LotsOfShoes · 24/04/2016 16:02

City solicitor in a US corporate law firm here. I understand how bad the hours are. BUT you have 2 issues here:

  1. Putting your make up away and cleaning dishes after breakfast is NOT housework. Leaving clothes around like that is just inconsiderate. It would take you a second to put them in the hamper rather than on the chair.

  2. You keep bringing up money when this is about being untidy. Money is clearly an issue here and you are treating him like your pet or a maid. Your posts suggest you think you are somehow superior to him or better. You're not. How much money you bring in should absolutely not be brought up in discussions about housework. I say this as someone who is making 3 times my DP's salary. And whatever resentment you have towards having helped him financially should be resolved ASAP.

YABVU

AskingForAPal · 24/04/2016 16:03

OP have you read Wifework? IIRC there was a stat in there that showed women did MORE housework when their partner was at home, than they did when they were both working. Thinking was that they were under more pressure to relief his anxiety about being the "woman". FFS.

Marynary · 24/04/2016 16:04

OP you are doing an incredibly difficult job, a lot of people on this thread just don't understand how hard it is.

Conversely a lot of people on this thread don't understand how hard completing a PhD is. Absolutely nothing OP has written suggests her partner is a "cocklodger".

CandyFlossBrain · 24/04/2016 16:04

It's irritating that the first thing some people want to do is chirp in with 'but if you were the SAHP...' There are no children. The OP is working long demanding hours financially supporting her DP so he can fanny about with a vanity project. If he has such issues with being seen to do cleaning for a mere woman, he should go out and get a temp job before his permanent one starts.

Yes Op, you can do things like remember to fill the washing bowl while the kettle boils so you can immediately wash up, and keep a basket to throw your makeup bits in and store out of sight, but these are tiny things really, and no reasonable person tells their partner off over such small things. It's a very rare person who leaves for work with their home looking like it isn't lived in.

I'd be concerned about what happens when he is in a job. Will he still do his 50% then, or will the goalposts shift to suit him? And what about if you do have dc's? You may well find you're expected to keep a spotless house for his OCDness while juggling babies too...

Marynary · 24/04/2016 16:05

I totally agree with your post LotsOfShoes.

Paleninteresting · 24/04/2016 16:06

I would be curious to know whether dirty nappies will be his or your OP. And who will own the children's toys?
My definition of achieving equality is my house is, if I'm on my feet working, (metaphorically)so are you. If not, it isn't equal.
He has the better deal here.
Yes Owl, they should be working hard and playing hard, not moaning about washing up FFS.

CandyFlossBrain · 24/04/2016 16:07

Absolutely nothing OP has written suggests her partner is a "cocklodger".

Unless I read it wrong she said that he took an extra year to complete a piece of work he could have handed in on time, and that was going to have no bearing on his career. That sounds like a full year of cocklodging to me.

Marynary · 24/04/2016 16:08

It's irritating that the first thing some people want to do is chirp in with 'but if you were the SAHP...' There are no children. The OP is working long demanding hours financially supporting her DP so he can fanny about with a vanity project. If he has such issues with being seen to do cleaning for a mere woman, he should go out and get a temp job before his permanent one starts.

What is the "vanity project"? My understanding is that he is brushing up on skills that are required to do the job he has lined up.

Whatthefucknameisntalreadytake · 24/04/2016 16:09

Christ op, your partner would hate me. I never remember to take mugs to the kitchen, they just accumulate around the house until there are no clean mugs left, and at that point I do the washing up. It gets on my partners tits but then some things he does get on my tits so swings and roundabouts!

yumyumpoppycat · 24/04/2016 16:12

I also agree that although its prob considerate to put your cup away etc and no bad thing to learn to be tidier, he is being a bit u, it is your house too and you will have to find a compromise middle ground where you are both happy or its not going to work. Also if and when you have kids it can be really hard when there are two different standards around things like tidiness, plus you will have multiples more cups hanging around, clothes on chairs etc and it will be "all your fault" as you set the example (dp and I argue a lot about tidiness -it is a problem) Blush.

Marynary · 24/04/2016 16:12

Unless I read it wrong she said that he took an extra year to complete a piece of work he could have handed in on time, and that was going to have no bearing on his career. That sounds like a full year of cocklodging to me.

My understanding that the extra year was to finish his PhD and the "manuscript" was a publication of the PhD work. Both could certainly be very useful in the future, whether or not OP (or you) get that.

Twinkie1 · 24/04/2016 16:12

I'd leave all my stuff and get the cleaner to do it and tell him to do his own or jog on.

It's not financial control. It's give and take. He's doing an awful lot of taking and not much giving IMO.

FlyingScotsman · 24/04/2016 16:15

Candy it's very6y unusual to finish a PhD 'ion time' ie writhing the. Year time scale where you have funding. It is normal to need 4 (sometimes more) years to finish it.
That is n't an issue as such.
Just as yes, it isn't an issue that the OP tidy up after herself such as putting a make up bag in its place.
What isn't normal is the expectation to have a strict 50/50 on the washing up etc... When one partner has to get up early, comes back home late, and just knackered and the other can have a lie in, work when they please (if the OP's by wants to have a leisurely day, he can etc...) and in general have no commitment in their day at all.
Yes it is better if he is brushing up his skills in coding but then he has been hired wo any coding skills..... I doubt his employer is expecting him to whatever level in it rigt from the start (It would be different if to get the job he had been asked to get to xx level, confirmed by an exam before starting the job).

So in effect, here is a highly qualified person who has a few months with no work at all, who hasn't tried to find a small temp job to help with finances (the OP says it is tight) but still expects to do the minimum, aka just 'his' stuff and feels there is no need for him to help his partner, even though he has the time and the energy to do it.

What I'm finding interesting is that I've asked DH what he thought about it and his answer was that this is guy is totally unreasonnable.... (DH in this house is the one working full time when I'm the one working part time....)

Atthebottomofthegarden · 24/04/2016 16:16

YANBU. I do not think someone who is naturally tidy has any idea how stressful trying to be tidy is to those of us who are not!

The problem is, you get no credit for the 9 things you put away, just griping about the 1 thing you didn't. That feels pants.

I think the money is a red herring though. This is never going to go away and you are both going to have to compromise. You are going to have to try - he is going to have to cut you some slack when you don't succeed. Talk to him.