Child excluded from party

[Winterdaisy]

I know this is a common problem but I need to know what to do about it.
My son appears to have been excluded from a 8th birthday party that every other boy in his class attended today. Photos on Facebook.
He says he was not invited as my first thought was he had not passed on the invite to me. He is at a small village school with only one class per year.
My son does seem to have had some friends issues lately and has gone from being in the thick of playing it to hanging out with one other boy (they are both academic geek types) talking mine craft when I drop him off at school.
So would I be unreasonable to talk to teacher and find out what is going on and if he is excluded for a reason ? He can be boisterous and can be a bit too clever at times, may have upset other children ☹️
Or do I just keep out? I have no intention of asking the mother as she is very nice and would hate to embarrass her, or myself if it's because my child has been horrid to hers.

That's totally uncalled for, ananas, OP's child isn't 'vile' but your comment is horrible.

soThat as you say much learning is to be done between 8 and 18. That goes for social awareness and emotional intelligence too. Punishing children for their failure to grasp those concepts is like making a child stand with a dunces hat on because they got their sums wrong. That would make them aware they are bad at maths, but not improve their skills in that area one bit!

There is a process of emotional growth that goes on - children can't just be told, just like you wouldn't expect to tell a child how to do long division and expect them to retain and apply the information from then on.

soThat as you say much learning is to be done between 8 and 18. That goes for social awareness and emotional intelligence too. Punishing children for their failure to grasp those concepts is like making a child stand with a dunces hat on because they got their sums wrong. That would make them aware they are bad at maths, but not improve their skills in that area one bit!

There is a process of emotional growth that goes on - children can't just be told, just like you wouldn't expect to tell a child how to do long division and expect them to retain and apply the information from then on.

You're right headof thehive. You cant just tell them and I didnt mean that literally.

I think what has happened here is just what the OPs son needs in order to develop his emotional growth. The OP has been telling him and is hasnt worked.

Now he has been excluded from a childs party he was once friends with and every other boy has been invited.

An 8 year old understands that more than words.

the OP now needs to say to him matter of factly, well if you are not nice to other children, they wont be your friend anymore.

I think this is just what the OPs son needs and I dont mean that in a goady way, I mean he needs it for his emotional development as it may now hit home that children dont like him.

As lyingwitch said brilliantly:

I agree with nancy in that a child-that-exhibits-bullying-behaviour (to avoid the inflammatory name of 'bully' here), shouldn't be invited to a child who doesn't want them there's party. Why would anybody do that? It teaches the 'bully' nothing yet tells your child everything they need to know about their own self-worth.

The OPs son is going to learn a lesson from this. More so if other children also dont want him at their parties.

Some children learn social skills naturally. Some like mine and the OP's need to be taught explicitly. The way to do this is definitely not by exclusion though which like any other form of bullying can have severe impact on a child's mental health and self-esteem. If it was just a party now and then absolutely no problem but we found that the drying up of party invitations from Year One was just the tip of the iceberg in a lot of exclusion also going on at school. OP you are absolutely right to raise the friendship issue via school but make sure you ask specific questions e.g. not does your ds have friends but who does he play with. We had a "yes" to the first but then the teacher couldn't actually name anybody which was much more indicative of the true situation.

They don't understand empathy, and aren't sufficiently aware until they are teens I disagree. My 7yr old is well aware of what is acceptable & what isn't. Their school motto is "treat others who you wish to be treated" and it is reinforced on a regular basis. Yes, some don't get it, but at this age, they are most certainly capable.

I actually think its an important lesson to learn in life, my boys have had to learn that they will get invited to some parties and not others Exactly. My dd's have not been invited to parties, they know the party child has limits, and that if they aren't in the close circle, they might not get invited. It's an important lesson, I think.

My mum didn't do parties, so because I never invited anyone, I didn't get invited to any. I can honestly say that I am not wounded because of it. But then, for some reason, parties didn't seem like a big deal when I was younger.

The OPs son is going to learn a lesson from this. More so if other children also dont want him at their parties

Oh my son certainly learnt the lesson that nobody liked him by simiilar exclusons. Probably why he no longer attends school and refuses most of the time to go out of the house. Was it an effective way in improving his social skills then definitely not.

Those who were saying that the patent would know if they'd only left one child out, I've shared this before.

For my 7th birthday dm asked me to list who I wanted to invite. I didn't have a best friend, so I listed the girls who I did something with. So that was those who were in my maths group, my english group, my art group and the girl who did a club with me.
Dm looked at the list, said that looked fine and then asked, rather as an afterthought, if I had invited then all.
I answered totally believing this to be true that there were several I hadn't invited.
Dm asked me to name them, and when it came down to that, I realised it was only one. In my defence we'd lost 3-4 girls that term and the one before.
But I didn't realise, nor did dm, and it was only because she persisted that it came out. She could easily have not asked, and if she hadn't asked me to name them, which I think was done from interest not a loaded question, I don't think we'd have realised at all.
I had no objection to the girl involved either. I was at least as friendly to her as I was to others I had asked, but just that term it happened to work out so she was the only girl I wasn't in a group with.

I do think that at that age they know who is perceived to be best. Mine certainly could have told you, despite the school being very careful to name groups and try to hide it. And mine would talk about it on a very matter-of-fact way. "Jamie can do his maths so quickly no one else has done the first question, Emma is the fastest runner ever, I scored a goal against the best goalkeeper in the school, JB is reading level 6 now!

I'm with Mary that we need to be careful what we describe as bullying in this age group. A friend of ours has a child who has just left primary. All through primary he was excluded and various comments were made about him in the playground. He is on the spectrum although not diagnosed till end of year three, beginning of year 4. He wasn't invited to parties because he said uncomfortable things to other children. Poor kid was miserable. Now at his new school, the way they are helping him and his choice to announce at class assembly on the first day that if h e said something rude he didn't mean it and would they please help him by telling him if he upset them, has meant he is well established already with plenty of friends. Pretty hard for anyone under 11 to be emotionally aware enough to do that.

At primary I was a very bully able child and my best friend took advantage of my insecurity by threatening to defriend me or bite me if I didn't do what she said etc.. Years later, we discovered our old school reports and correspondence in her house after her mum had died and we were sorting out correspondence. Turned out her parents had thought I was bullying her. We were both astonished (although things had long since been mended by then).

I do see that other desdcriptions on this thread sound pretty horrible, and understanding how awful it is to have a child in that situation, but just don't assume that a child you describe as being a bully is really mean and incapable of changing. You don't always know what's going on. Of course you want to defend your child, but you also may not have the whole story.

When my children had a large party they were never allowed to leave out just one or two children in the class. It was invites for the whole class or no party.
I taught them to always put themselves in the other child's place. Would they like to be left out?

You sound just like me...
Don't try to second guess it, ask the teacher. May well be a fallout has occurred yhat will mend.
Have the same issues with my son (now 12)
He is super smart but at that age his teacher told me he was being a bit cocky and mean to others on his table when they were struggling to finish something.
So I had a talk with my son and wrote 'Be kind not cocky' on his bedroom wall as a reminder.
It worked re him stopping saying disparaging stuff. It did not make him miraculously better at friendships. (He is painfully over-sensitive, actually quite shy, but incredibly big headed about how smart he is... and can be gobby... confuses the hell out of me!)

But I'll be brutally honest, he's 12 now and still struggles with keeping friends.
Possibly his nature, probably our situation.
He is an only child and I am a single working mum. His dad lives in next village but does not see him (he can't be arsed to... new wife was not keen on it, wanted him all to herself)
Can't help but beat myself up for not 'socialising him' enough when he was younger. (More playdates, more time with cousins.) But I worked so did not really get a place in the Playground Mum club.
We always blame ourselves, but it may also just be his nature.

Yours is still young, maybe actively fill his social calendar with lots of playdates? Get him in a footie/rugby team. Sounds like he may just needs to learn how to function in a crowd. Worth a try.

Oh, and try to praise him for his character and kind behaviour, not how clever he is.. I think I may have created the monster by telling him how smart he was (thinking I was encouraging him)

Wish they came with a book!

ananas this is not the first time you have posted something out of order. Perhaps I should lower myself to your level and say you sound vile?
OneInEight that sounds awful. After the experiences my DD had, we had a very rocky 10 or so months to get her to school - detailed briefly a little back thread. The school we very aware of the situation and DD was being monitored and seeing the school counsellor. We had just got a child psychologist involved on another matter. The two situations coincided and her input in this situation was amazing and worth every penny. It took a long time to turn things around but my DD is so self assured these days.

I've experienced this both ways. It's not always about bullying the excluded child, and there can be reasons. I think maybe your son just came to represent all the hurt this other child was feeling about struggling at school, it may or may not be rational, children are not always mature enough to process things when they are stressed. You don't know what the other child is going through though, and the party is supposed to be about him, and in similar circumstances I wouldn't want my own child's party ruined - it may be the only nice thing happening in his life at the moment. Maybe it was his only way of exerting control in what may have been a very scary place in his life. It's a really tough call for a parent to make. Might have been helpful for his Mum to explain though, but sometimes it can be a very stressful and scary place for parents too, she may have felt too embarrassed and upset to tell you. Personally I think your son sounds like he'll bounce back from this experience and I would encourage him to look at how he interacts with people from their point of view. Hope he wasn't too upset.

I taught them to always put themselves in the other child's place. Would they like to be left out?

My DD would never have cut a pony tail off (which was done to her). I wouldn't even have tried to get her to put herself in the place of a jealous little madam. I really never cared that the little bitch was left out. It was an ace party she missed out on as well and she ended up being left out of lots more parties due to her jealous nasty streak. She's 25 now and has tried to apologise many times. No apology can ever make up for the emotional damage she caused to my DD and others in that group. The girls still talk about it yet and I'm still shocked hearing other things she did which I was unaware of. It still angers me to think back when I walked into the room after the school had called to find a sobbing, broken 11 year old child holding her pride and joy of a blonde plait.

Oh my son certainly learnt the lesson that nobody liked him by simiilar exclusons. Probably why he no longer attends school and refuses most of the time to go out of the house. Was it an effective way in improving his social skills then definitely not.

The OPs son in this case is bragging and boasting and rubbing other childrens noses in it that he is top of the class. That is why children dont like him. Would I have him at my childs birthday party if he had been cruel to them, most definitely not.

Is is not about the OPs son, it is about a child that doesnt want someone who has been nasty to him at his party.

Spring my word that's very harsh. I was abused by other kids at school. Followed home by a massive gang of kids threatening to do me in, live cigarettes thrown at me, surrounded and pushed around, had rumours spread around that I'd been seen at a VD clinic (I was so upset about that one that I even phoned up the family planning clinic where I'd been supposedly seen only to be told it was dealt with by the hospital - obviously I hadn't been to either), told rumours that x child wanted to kick my face in, kicked in the shins so hard I have a dent etc etc. Yes the vitriole can last or it can subside. I know I'm the happier one for not bearing a grudge.
Op I never answered your question, I would go and talk to the parent as a previous poster suggested and if they are reasonable you will get a sensible answer.

You can be very aware that you are able, and it doesn't mean that he is boasting or bragging at all. But the perceived nature of things is that if you are able, you need "taking down a peg or two". You can say nothing, but it might be the fact you do well annoys people.

toomany your child may be able in this respect at 7 but not all are. That's my point. My DD3 learned social skills late, even though we tried to help. I know for example she will be on her own in the playground, but she has learnt that it's ok to be on your own and is quite self reliant.

Matt I've been told "but I gave them out secretly to the mums so as not to upset anyone" i.e. my DD and me as I'm one of the only working mums so am not around at pick-up. As DD gets left out of so many (not many girls in small class, she's youngest and quite tearful) I approached school about a subtle email reminding parents not to exclude, but school just ignored me.

Regardless of the reason for socially excluding a child it is the parent who should take responsibility and explain. Anyobe saying 'it was DS/DD choice" NO!!
As parents we take responsibility for listening to our kids wishes and then deciding how to proceed. If a child says "I want you to buy me a knife to hurt someone" would you sanction it? I doubt it. So when a child wants to exclude 1 child from a party to teach them a lesson surely it's the parents role to show the thats not the way to behave. If a child is excluded it is an adults decision to exclude them. Please don't blame the kids.

spring the girl seems to have matured and feels sorry for her behaviour - and you won't forgive her? Your choice but it seems a bit cruel.

Recently I met someone out in a pub that i'd been to school with. He's been quite cruel to me at about age 16. I was very quiet and timid and he made fun of me and humiliated me many times. When I met him that time - aged in our 30s - I could tell he was not the same person. I didn't feel angry - it was almost like a closure - the fact that he seemed to have turned into a decent person.

The last few posters have made me think a bit more about this subject... not only are children not always able to process their thoughts and feelings accurately, I don't think they are able to do the 'adult thing' of 'taking people as they find them' either, which could mean that a child being bullied is often ostracised by others in a group for no other reason than a) they don't want the bully to turn on them and/or b) they perceive there is something 'wrong' with that child and don't want it to 'rub off' on them.

It's very sad and confusing for a parent trying to understand what's going on in a child's head sometimes I think.

... and I too wish they came with a book; and maybe a helpful DVD?

Yes I agree lying, we expect children to exhibit adult behaviours in situations like this and I don't think it's fair. I won't be forcing my child to invite someone to his party who has bullied him or makes him feel nervous. Inclusion shouldn't come at this expense of his wellbeing.

Iwant not sure where you came up with "ignore" child's wishes, I didn't see that in any posts. I listened to my child and talked through different ways of dealing with the situation. After all it's not just about one party it's about learning how to maturely deal with issues for the rest of life. In my case DC decided to invite all.

If my office left one awkward person out of a social occasion as they didn't like them formal bullying procedures would be started at work. If we want children to learn how to manage situations we need to lead by example.