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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To consider ending my relationship over rape jokes?

540 replies

Genie0709 · 22/04/2016 16:31

Really sorry if this is a bit of an essay but I would appreciate any opinions/advice.

For background, my partner and I are 27 and have been together for 2.5 years. We have known each other since we were about 16. He has been the most loving, supportive, faithful person since we got together. It is a wonderful relationship and we bring out the best in each other. Currently we don't live together but we have recently started looking to buy our first house.

Last night, I was watching a programme on our Ipad which is linked to his phone. At the time, he was on the train home from work. He and his friends were having a group conversation over imessage and every incoming message popped up at the top of the Ipad as I was watching iplayer. One text appeared referring to a girl as "the one that got away, hey MrGenie" and I couldn't help myself - I opened the group chat to see who they were talking about (please no lectures, I already feel terrible and have never felt a need to snoop before). I soon realised that my partner had sent to his friends an instagram picture of a girl in a dress with her chest out. My partner had commented that he didn't know what he would do if he saw her like that. Cue the most disgusting discussion between these men joking that she was asking to be raped wearing that, even a judge would agree, etc. Gang rape was also joked about. My partner was actively participating in this chat, talking about a time when he went home with this girl after a night out and had "finished" in the taxi before they even got home because she was so hot. They didn't end up sleeping together, which he said he was "still gutted about".

Needless to say I am devastated. Reading that conversation was like reading the messages of a stranger. I have never seen this vile side of him and I feel like I don't know him at all. To me, it is so out of character but maybe he is just an absolute arsehole when I am not around. I am disgusted by the things he said and disgusted by his friends. I feel disrespected, humiliated, terrified that I do not know my own boyfriend.

I have been at work today so have avoided seeing him, but we have an appointment with a mortgage adviser tonight so I am supposed to pick him up from work in an hour. Currently, I can't even bare the thought of looking at him.

Am I overreacting - is this something you could get over? I know that these texts were sick jokes but even joking about it crosses a line in my opinion. I am distraught at the thought of ending this relationship but he obviously has this revolting immature side of him that only comes out when he's with his laddy mates. I'm not sure how I would trust him when he goes out with these friends in the future, or how I would ever look his friends in the eye again.

OP posts:

FindoGask · 23/04/2016 18:17

"However...rewind 20 years or so and this type of conversation, without recordings and images, was quite typical of groups of lads, the sort of phooowarrr, what about her then, you missed a treat there lad, we should have all got together and given her a good seeing to etc.

The difference is, 20 years ago you'd probably not have heard it because it would have been discussed when you weren't around, and there wouldn't have been an image to go with the discussion. "

Great post; can't really add anything to it but just wanted to acknoweldge!

HelenaDove · 23/04/2016 18:18

Yes im a woman. I suspect the OPs boyfriend wasnt truthful because of what he had to gain by not being so. Nothing to do with being "wussy"

They were just about to get a mortgage together. I suspect he wasnt truthful and turned on the waterworks because he didnt want to fuck up his chances.

EverySongbirdSays · 23/04/2016 18:19

The person defending rape jokes and telling people who don't like them to get off the thread is a man. What a shock.

Why don't you learn something instead of aiming for the title of

Mansplainer of the Year

HelenaDove · 23/04/2016 18:20

Which means 20 years ago the OP probably wouldnt have got any warning about his true colours until they were married or she was pregnant.

VestalVirgin · 23/04/2016 18:22

Do you all genuinely believe that people can't change? That he could realise how appalling his attitude to women (in the abstract) has been and that he now knows how wrong he's been? And that he won't ever behave (or think) that way again?

See, that happening would be nice. It would also be nice if I won the lottery.

I don't believe that people can't change. I believe that most people do not want to change.

That man lived to be 27 without ever questioning his deeply misogynistic attitude. How likely is it that now is the first time anyone ever tells him that his attitude to women is appalling?

Justmeagain78 · 23/04/2016 18:25

I agree that it's horrible but unfortunately this is how men talk. No matter how great their relationship is they will always be looking at other women and either thinking or saying explicit things about them. This is how men are and you have just unfortunately had to witness it in a horrible way because your boyfriend is part of a friendship circle where this sort of thing is discussed in quite a repulsive way. You can end the relationship if it feels impossible to continue but any man you meet will be the same. I can imagine it's very hurtful, I know how it feels so you have my complete sympathy op

HelenaDove · 23/04/2016 18:29

No this is NOT how men are My DH isnt like it. Hes 23 years my senior. We met when i was 19 and he was 42.......24 years ago.

Every time i see or hear about so called "lads banter" im reminded of why i started dating older men.

VestalVirgin · 23/04/2016 18:29

You can end the relationship if it feels impossible to continue but any man you meet will be the same.

Possibly. Doesn't mean we have to get into relationships with those dudes, though.

If one is desparate, there's always the option of situational homosexuality.

I like to believe that there are men who don't have the mindset of rapists. If I truly believed that they are all like that, then I would avoid even talking to them.

ricketytickety · 23/04/2016 18:29

It really isn't how all men talk. Some are kind and gentle and love women as people.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 23/04/2016 18:29

It is not how all men talk, just misogynists.

To be honest men will continue to be like this so long as women accept that that is just how men "are."

septembersunshine · 23/04/2016 18:30

Op, I think you are right to think twice about this man. I'm kind of inclined to believe if he has had these friends for years this kind of thinking/joking is ingrained in him to an extent. He must, surely, be one of them. Or he is just playing his role so well by now he is forgetting himself? This is the crux of the issue: you will never know.

Either way can you ever forget this? Once seen it can not be unseen. He is tainted now unless you can completely forgive and forget. Plus you have to believe him and even then you now know he has two very different sides. Difficult.

ricketytickety · 23/04/2016 18:36

I feel for you op, finding out about his attitude now must be heartbreaking. The tears are confusing, but often unkind people cry when they are worried they'll lose something.

VestalVirgin · 23/04/2016 18:36

To be honest men will continue to be like this so long as women accept that that is just how men "are."

I actually think that the men who are despicable human beings would continue to be like that regardless of what women accept. You cannot force an asshole to become a decent person. He would have to change of his own volition, and clearly, those men had enough time to change, if they had wanted to.

The difference is that a lot of women would be a lot happier if they just refused to enter into relationships with such dudes.

And those dudes would be unhappy singles, as they deserve to be.

Justmeagain78 · 23/04/2016 18:42

I didn't say all men were rapists, just that they all objectify women to a greater or lesser extent. No we don't have to tolerate this kind of talk, we make it clear it is not acceptable and walk away if it is unbearable or unforgivable. It is frightening to think that men can talk this way and it shouldn't be tolerated but I think we would all be horrified if we could read our partner's mind.

SpeakNoWords · 23/04/2016 18:51

Sorry to jump in to the thread at this point, but really, all men do not objectify women. My partner, my dad and my brother do not. They really don't, they wouldn't dream of it, and they view women as people. They may well be in a minority but they are not at all like the OPs boyfriend.

VestalVirgin · 23/04/2016 18:58

It is frightening to think that men can talk this way and it shouldn't be tolerated but I think we would all be horrified if we could read our partner's mind.

I wouldn't. I know this for sure because I am single.
If you really believe that all men are like this - and let's be real here, objectifying women is the first step towards rape - then the logical conclusion from that (assuming you are a heterosexual woman) is to stay single.

I am not saying that you are wrong - in fact, I am single because I have not been able to find a man who is both sufficiently attractive and also not a misogynist of some sort - but you should stay true to yourself and your beliefs. If you really believe men incapable of seeing you as a person, and if you are heterosexual ... then staying single is the only sensible option. Why waste your love and loyalty on a man who doesn't even see you as human?

PetrolBastard · 23/04/2016 19:07

OP, do remember to take the MN position on relationships with a pinch of salt. The default position is invariably that the OP should immediately cease all contact with the man in question.

It is entirely your decision whether you wish to continue this relationship, which must take into account the full history of your knowledge of this person, and not a tiny snapshot of one instance of their poor behaviour.

For what it's worth, I don't think you should read other people's private conversations. Even if you had needed to turn the tablet off or text your partner to say that his conversation was being unintentionally broadcast to you.

SortingStuffStill · 23/04/2016 19:08

I refuse to belive my sons are like this! Not how I've brought them up. But... 'Slut' is bandied around much more liberally nuw than i remember at the same age, on socual media. Also women are objectified so much more again via social nedia, media. Boob jobs were laughable, only for porn stars/page 3 girls when i was young.

UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 19:09

Sorry I meant a woman making a joke about raping/sexually assaulting a man Vestal.

Justmeagain78 · 23/04/2016 19:09

Objectifying women does not lead to rape - all men enjoy porn, all men have explicit thoughts about women they're not in a relationship with but they're not all capable of rape. Let's be very careful here - the op's boyfriend is not intending to rape anyone.

Justmeagain78 · 23/04/2016 19:10

Sorry that was in response to vestal Virgin

KondosSecretJunkRoom · 23/04/2016 19:13

You can end the relationship if it feels impossible to continue but any man you meet will be the same

Bullshit.

Dangerous bullshit which weak women comfort themselves with to tolerate their (potential) partner's misogyny and that weak men tell themselves when they objectify women to massage their own fragile egos.

UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 19:14

Nanny I do think someone can change but I'd like to think it wouldn't take the O0 potentially breaking up with him to do it.

bumblebee1234 · 23/04/2016 19:24

Everysongbirdsays

I was not victim blaming I was out new years eve with my partner it was winter I was cold. We saw a couple the man looked warm in his coat the woman was wearing a skimpy dress in winter. Do you not think the man should have offered his jacket or not? she is not an object to walk around with and show off. Unless you think differently.

EverySongbirdSays · 23/04/2016 19:33

I didnt read your post only the quote. I didn't think you were I thought your OH was - maybe she didn't want the coat, if she chooses to be skimpy in the cold, she chooses to be. Have you ever seen Leeds on a Saturday night in February?

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