To dislike my friends daughter?

[Thebrowntrout]

Am thinking yes.

She's 3. (I know, there are going to be a tonne of outraged SHE'S 3 posts. But stay with me.)

She demands to be carried everywhere. Won't go in the pushchair (she's a bit on the big side for it anyway) and friend has a younger DD as well who is 9 months and is generally carried in a sling or pushchair. So either friend has to struggle and stagger with the weight of two children or carry one on her hip with the other in the pushchair,

She wants what she wants immediately. Now. She will scream she wants a tissue. Friend gives her a tissue. She will continue screaming and screaming that she wants a tissue. These screaming fits are pretty much constant.

The younger child is pretty much ignored since friend is constantly dealing with older one, and you can't talk to friend at all due to behaviour of child 1.

So here are my questions - AIBU to think friend should possibly be encouraging child NOT to behave like this, and avoid friend because of it? The screaming is hard on the ears.

And when do they behave like humans? This child will be starting school in 16 months and surely won't be behaving like this then?

Devilish you're right, I'd rather ds was delightful with everyone else even if it means dealing with bad behaviour at home. I remember raising concerns with his nursery keyworker when we were enduring a particularly torrid phase. she was all . Said she and all her colleagues had often wished they could have a whole class of children like him! At the time we thought "well what the hell are we doing wrong?!" I gather he was just secure enough to test the boundaries at home and know we'd still love him.

She probably senses your dislike and plays up to it.

Well, this thread was only going to go one way.

I'm childless. I sometimes look at friends' / randoms' children in absolute horror for the behaviour I see. Unfortunately, because I have no kids and no exposure to kids beyond teaching sports classes for groups of them years ago, I've no idea whether what I'm seeing is the result of poor parenting, good parenting, a particularly challenging child, special needs, medical issues or anything else.

Fills me with terror at what I'll get when we have kids. In fact, we get halfway to having them before witnessing some particularly grim behaviour and then vowing that it's better to remain childless.

When I read posts like this I always think I can't wait for the op to have their own dc.

Not all children are like that, but they're all different and it's not necessarily any reflection on the parenting. It sounds to me as though the little girl is insecure about the baby, and the mum is trying hard not to push her out.

But even the loveliest most chilled out children have their bratty phases.

You always love your own no matter what and you usually cringe at the ideas you had pre dc.

She probably senses your dislike and plays up to it.

I hate phrases like this. I go through my day quietly disliking many things/statements/people; however I usually try not to let on and to treat the people/things/statements kindly. If I'm not going to get any credit for making an effort to be kind but am just going to be slated for having the feelings in the first place, I might as well stop bothering to be kind at all.

Op is allowed to feel how she feels - she cares enough to try and hide it and to hang in there for her friend. Many don't care that much so she deserves some credit I think.

I have a 3 year old & a 2 year old so presumably I'm actually allowed to agree with you OP.
I have a friend whose 3 year old is pandered too constantly, and his behaviour & attitude is awful. Actually dislike being around him.
Unfortunately it's not usually the child's fault - they know what they can get away with so they continue to do so.
Maybe offer to take out the 9 month old, on the pretence that she can spend some time alone with her 3 yo.

She's 3 so it is probably just another phase. I know my children when they were 2 or 3 absolutely hated me talking to other adults unless they had someone their own age to play with.

I think if you try and hide your dislike of her and make a bit of a fuss ie bring a small pressie like a kids magazine, toy or cake (if she's allowed) along and make a big deal of giving it to her. Ask her questions, compliment her on being clever if she says something interesting and maybe do something with her like colouring or read a book, she may warm to you and start enjoying your outings.

It might be more realistic to meet your friend in the evening when the kids are in bed though!

As a mother of 3 grown up children and also having myself taken a dislike to a friends child I can relate to both sides of this.

When my second son was born, my eldest son was 3, he was the only nephew , grandchild as well as my child at this point in time. I had breast fed him until he was 2, so he was upset everytime i fed his baby brother, my eldest would clamber on my lap, & everything that my baby had he wanted to share too. It was exhausting and to an outsider people would have judged that I was indulging him, but to him his world had fallen apart, he was jealous and confused by this new arrival. In time as my younger son learnt to crawl and play they became good playmates and people often referred to them as twins they were so close, but the first year was really hard. Bare with your friend and I am sure this will resolve itself. Its typical behaviour

Now having said that, I did have an issue with a friends child, from the age of 2, which is worse in some ways but the child was always attacking other children and adults, and then at 3/4 she called her mum names (that I cant print on here) and my then partner had to go and help her put the child to bed at bedtime as she would kick and scream, the mum couldn't cope with her. I would like to say this had a happy outcome, but sadly that child went on to become a serial bully at school, got expelled, into a sexual relationship at 15 with a much older man, stole from shops, got kicked out of college for fighting and has never held down a job (she is now 19). My daughter who is a year older than her, would hide when her mum came round with her in tow, it was unavoidable as her mother was also her aunt on her dads side so I couldnt turn them away. Oddly though, she had a sister who was completely the opposite, sweet natured, kind and loving..

I have a 3 year old DS. He did this very high pitched noise in Morrisons the other day. He was grumpy that afternoon.

I overheard a woman say that she can't stand children "like that". But for the very first time I felt confident and it was like I had grown this hard skin I have never had before. I didn't care what she said. It was a good feeling. I hope it lasts- I like feeling confident. Some people in society won't like me feeling like that though. I just smiled at the woman.

Now that DS is getting the support he needs and assessments are being done to see if he actually is Autistic, it has been a bit of a turning point. Fuck people who don't know him :)

Wow I've gone a bit overboard with the smileys there!

Oh dear. Classic threenager behaviour, coupled with jealousy and frustration regarding the baby. Hang in there OP, be there for your friend. I was also "lovely and calm" with my threenager but on the inside I felt shit and embarrassed and wanted to scream. YANBU to not enjoy listening to this behaviour. Your friend is not helping herself by not letting anyone else hold/carry the baby (can understand the 3 year old would go nuclear with someone else) but it's how she feels and I'm not judging her for it. Has your friend considered a buggy board for the 3 year old? Takes a bit of pressure off. But as I said, hang in there in the meantime-my son was lovely by 4 and chances are when the little girl starts nursery she will settle down a bit.

I'm lovely and calm with ds because anything else will make the situation worse. I'm still exhausted by it.

3 year olds can be bloody hard work, mine was. She went through a very screamy phase but I was very firm about telling her she didn't have to shout or that she should ask nicely for things etc. If your friend is not doing this, she should probably start.

.....also there might be jealousy issues between her and the baby, it can be a tricky time.

You can't really be unreasonable to dislike a child because you can't help your feelings.

Making those feelings known to the child or parents would BU but you don't appear to be doing that.

I used to feel the same way about some children before I had my own, and tbh even since having my own there are still some kids I really don't look forward to spending time with.

But they grow through those phases and change, often into very lovely older kids.

She was very rude, Cantwait. Congratulations on your newfound confidence, long may it last

However, I will say that my DS2 makes a very high-pitched noise sometimes deliberately and I HATE it. It makes me jump and wince! I don't hate him, mind you, nor do I hate any child I encounter who's being noisy while I'm out and about. I file it under 'kid noise' and saunter on. That is what reasonable adults do. Just because they jump doesn't mean they judge, necessarily.

She sounds like a normal 3 year old.

They are demanding,they can be naughty, they can be annoying. They can also be lovely and charming. But they're very young still and can't really be left to their own devices entirely so you can have a nice chat with your friend.

LaContessa Oh I'm with you on the hating the high pitched noises. Sometimes my ears actually start aching and I get so drained out by the constant whining. I do the same as you though when he or any child that age makes an awful noise like that, I wince a bit and carry on. What good is a PA dig or a direct confrontation going to do? It's not going to magically shut the child up is it?! Next time she might get an earful off the parent as well.
When he made that noise, me and this couple who were standing close by to us winced and then they just laughed it off. The nice tolerant people hopefully outweigh the grumps who like to grab any opportunity to voice their grumpiness.

Three can be horrendous. I had two fairly high maintenance three year olds, one of whom was a nuclear tantrummer. Childless friends, and those who had had easy going toddlers, or who had forgotten the toddler years now they had teens, looked on in horror I am sure. 9 months is the classic time for an older sibling to get more jealous of the younger actually- the tiny baby stage has gone, the baby is staring to crawl about and explore and ..Oh the horror! TOUCH much loved toys. And three year olds often do not like their Mummy, who they feel isn't giving them enough attention as it is, chatting to her adult friends. As any mother of a toddler who tries to make a 'phone call will tell you.
So I think your perspective is skewed because you have never been a mother of a stroppy demanding toddler. I have been there and have nothing but the deepest sympathy for your friend. I also think that maybe next to the new baby, the three year old looks much more grown up- she isn't. She is not much more than a baby herself. Yes, screaming toddlers are annoying, they are designed to be. Yes it is a right royal pain trying to chat to a friend while her toddler has a meltdown (as the last of my friends to have babies, I've been there many times over). But this stage will pass, and if you care about your friend then just be there to help when you can. Babysit either of them, or both. I did this with all my friends children and it did help build a closer relationship where I was more relaxed with them and they with me. Carry the baby when you are walking. Give the older one some special treats that are not for babies.
Oh and my nuclear tantrummer was the best behaved child in her class at school. And my other high maintenance one is off-the-scale clever and exceptionally kind. Just cut them all some slack op. If you get a child like this yourself someday you will look back and wince at this thread. As you will when your friends Dd is older and a delight to be with.

I have a 3 year old DD and I also dislike the behaviour of my friends 3 year old DD, (Notice I said behaviour not her). It drives me insane and has made me question the friendship, this is due to her parenting, not the DD.

I think that YANBU to not like the behaviour, I suspect that the DD is struggling with emotions, new sibling however rather than judge and dislike this toddler how about offering to help, don't sit back and watch your friend struggle. Why not offer to push or carry the baby?

These young years really don't last that long, I think 2 under 5 is challenging.

Parents of demanding three year old get to see their other side too - the angelic sleepy child, the big grin when they see you in the morning - whereas the OP is just seeing the monster, which skews your perspective a bit.

She's 3. It's pretty obvious from your OP that you don't have any children so haven't a clue what you're talking about. Then you confirm later on you don't have children.

Come back to us when you have a 3 year old and then perhaps you won't be so horrible and judgemental about a child.

Littlelion - absolutely. I just ended up laughing at ds3's parent's evenings because he was such the total opposite at home. He once behaved in school the way he frequently behaves at home and they thought he was ill or having a funny turn. They were really worried and a bit bemused by my mum who was picking him up saying 'oh that's just ds3 isn't it?'. In his case I'm fairly sure that it was because home was a safe space to let it out, so he didn't have to hold himself together at home. I ended up being really worried about how well behaved he was at school, & how quiet, but he finally seems to be relaxing. We have chosen his secondary school carefully. He mainly behaves well at home now as well and if we go out providing I tell him to take a book for any dull moments he's good.

A quick book recommendation for anyone struggling. Stanley Greenspan's The Challenging Child. It gives a different perspective.

Look op, the toddler is only 3, she is behaving that way, because a she is little, and b because her mum is not dealing with it properly. It is not the child's fault!

Thebrowntrout, you seem completely normal and reasonable and all the other good stuff to me. You don't like this kid right now; why should you? She isn't very nice to be around. You've already said you're not fool enough to think she'll be this way forever. you seem to know that's fair enough.

Now whatcha gonna do about it?

That will be the crux of it. If it's "feel kind of narked and bitch to MN about it, but ultimately not a whole hell of a lot will change" then good for you. Even if you try and only see your mate after kiddy bedtime, and generally wish the years would pass a little quicker, excellent. YANBU. At all.

If you were about to do what my dgran did when faced with me and my brother's incessant demanding, whining and bickering, and pull us to one side away from our mother to tell us we were "the kind of people who started wars" (aged 4 and 6), then YWBU!!

...but then again who actually DOES that??