To dislike my friends daughter?

[Thebrowntrout]

Am thinking yes.

She's 3. (I know, there are going to be a tonne of outraged SHE'S 3 posts. But stay with me.)

She demands to be carried everywhere. Won't go in the pushchair (she's a bit on the big side for it anyway) and friend has a younger DD as well who is 9 months and is generally carried in a sling or pushchair. So either friend has to struggle and stagger with the weight of two children or carry one on her hip with the other in the pushchair,

She wants what she wants immediately. Now. She will scream she wants a tissue. Friend gives her a tissue. She will continue screaming and screaming that she wants a tissue. These screaming fits are pretty much constant.

The younger child is pretty much ignored since friend is constantly dealing with older one, and you can't talk to friend at all due to behaviour of child 1.

So here are my questions - AIBU to think friend should possibly be encouraging child NOT to behave like this, and avoid friend because of it? The screaming is hard on the ears.

And when do they behave like humans? This child will be starting school in 16 months and surely won't be behaving like this then?

I don't think screaming for everything is typical three year old behaviour. I think screaming a lot is typical, screaming sometimes is typical, screaming over specific incidents is typical, but not all interaction over a half hour period, every single time. That is extreme and I wouldn't really want to put myself through it if I didn't have to!

I do think it is slightly relevant that the OP has no children, but she herself acknowledges that fact clearly. I wish all the 'shut up, you have NO RIGHT TO COMMENT' people could realise that a nuanced debate about an issue with a childless person IS possible. Childless people are not automatically wrong, although they can be.

Whatever you do DO NOT GIVE UNSOLICITED ADVICE.

I have a friend who did this quite publically after comparing her daughter (who I, as a child development trained bod and a mum, feel is too quiet and withdrawn - something she has had support from an ed psych for too) to a friend's "ra ra rugby" 5 year old child. She also questioned the (safe) 'risks' I let my under-2 toddler take like running around well-vetted/babyproof houses. The rugby-child mum was mortified, naturally. It has not only impacted on their friendship though - I'm now on edge when our kids play together, thinking she's judging me.

Kids get clingy, cry, insist on being carried (and believe it or not switch this on when mum having her mum friend over makes them insecure - especially with a baby).
Babies need less conversation than 3 year olds - they 'absorb' it all but don't do activities as they're ... well, babies.
3 year olds can absolutely do your head in: but this isn't a problem. This is the nature of the situation. It's why they have babyproofing, why they train nannies and nursery workers well and have lots of rules, why mums look tired...

I don't think screaming for everything is typical three year old behaviour. I think screaming a lot is typical, screaming sometimes is typical, screaming over specific incidents is typical, but not all interaction over a half hour period, every single time. That is extreme and I wouldn't really want to put myself through it if I didn't have to!

It's not 24/7 though is it ... it's when ^mummy's grown up friend who gives off vibes about not liking me and is boring and is taking my mummy's time up when I get less than before anyway 'cause of little bro/sis is there...."
I'm no Sherlock Holmes but this strikes me as a glaringly obvious factor.

If a big person makes a little person feel anxious/disliked, they generally behave either timidly or 'act out'.

I wonder what it's like when the OP isn't there?

I don't think you're being u reasonable, you don't have to like someone else's whiney brat. As long as you don't say anything to the child or the mum I think quietly dislike away. There's a good chance whiney brat will improve massively once past this stage and will grow on you... Hopefully. It is hard when you dislike a friend's child. One of my friends has six children, I liked them all except the last one who was a nightmare. I never said anything and a few years later he's a little sweetheart :D

Childless people are not automatically wrong, although they can be.

But it is really, really hard to empathise or have the awareness of complexities, behaviour and nuances of a parent with young kids unless you either have young kids or work every day with them. Some childless people do this, others (and lots of people with older kids who rose-tint their memories) do not.
And this OP has made a sharp judgement about "disliking" a small child.

So in this case, yes, she has misjudged the situation.

And in the 15 years I worked with kids but was childless myself I would also have said she is wrong and lack of experience of kids/lack of empathy was at the core of it.

Lazy fucking journalists FUCK OFF

People really should read the thread or at least, skim through the last few posts.

It's not the 3 year olds fault it's her Mums for spooling her which I guarantee she has done!

I have a 3 year old who sometimes cries at nothing or something very minor and often wants your undivided attention and I also have a 10 week old.

I spooky her, no doubt about it - but now she's bigger I explain why I can't always do X, y or z straight away. You have to take responsibility as a parent.

A 3 year old can't consciously choose to be bad, they learn by example and what they have been allowed to do before.

Honking, not as young as you're probably assuming. I am judgemental, you're right. I sat there for 3 hours watching this person show more attention to her iPhone than her children. I don't blame the child for their behaviour - it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it though.

I'm not a journalist I'm a teacher, and have been at work, and have not been watching Loose Women. So fuck off yourself never watched it in my life.

Thebrown, that post wasn't aimed at yourself. This thread is currently being aired on LW.

I agree you don't have to like the child but her behaviour is fashioned by her mother.

Some kids' behaviour is revolting.

Loose women?Jesus. What a a lot of boring harridans. They give women a bad name.

Well that went well ....

"But it is really, really hard to empathise or have the awareness of complexities, behaviour and nuances of a parent with young kids unless you either have young kids or work every day with them. Some childless people do this, others (and lots of people with older kids who rose-tint their memories) do not.
And this OP has made a sharp judgement about "disliking" a small child."

But I have children and I think the OP is NOT unreasonable. I think she has the right to feel as she does and the way she feels is not necessarily the result of her childlessness.

I would have had the same opinion as the OP before my children, I also work with children and then went on to have an incredibly challenging toddler of my own, who also used to scream A LOT. I still don't think the OP is UR at all.

Oddly, as a teacher of challenging children I have never ever disliked a child, (good job too, someone that dislikes a child they teach is in the wrong job) I think it is down to the personal relationship one is allowed to have with a child you are looking after. It is different when you are just looking on.

I don't think it is fair to say that the child is clearly reacting to the OP's dislike, we have no evidence at all to that end.

Is she the first of your friends to have children? Sometimes the idea of children (or rather, the vague, idealised fantasy!) can be very different to the reality. A 3-year-old who is self-centered and demanding really is not outside the norm. And tantrums about ridiculous things? Par for the course. YANBU to not particularly want to be around a child when she is going through such a phase. Be grateful that you have the option of limiting contact! Her mother may occasionally daydream about just walking away from it all. . . But to actively dislike this child as a person, simply because she is behaving as many 3-year-olds do? That seems quite extreme to me.

I know you have dismissed the notion that your own childhood might be affecting how you view your friend and her children. However, from the outside looking in, I do wonder whether that is going on. You identify with the baby and fear she is being ignored due to the unreasonable demands of an elder sibling. But of course, this little girl is not your sibling, the baby is not you. I know someone who absolutely does play out the psychodrama of her family of origin with her own children. In her case, she was the eldest and strongly believes that her younger siblings received the lion's share of her parents' attention. In some sort of (unconscious) misguided attempt to redress this balance retroactively, she quite obviously and blatantly favours her eldest child. It's painful to observe TBH. But she seems entirely unaware of what she is doing and would be horrified to think that she treats her children so differently. However, it is as clear as day to everyone else, including the children (and her behaviour is as damaging to the favoured child as it is to the younger ones). It's a shame she never really dealt with her feelings of resentment before having children.

I have kids. I hated screamers and whingers before I had kids and I hate them now I have kids.

I'm trying to say this with the greatest of respect, but you really have no idea at all. Probably best for you to avoid people with kids if you genuinely can't find enough empathy to try and understand what is happening and would rather just call the children names.

No, you're not BU.
I don't like one of my friend's DD, she's forever miserable, difficult, whiny and always interrups het mum's conversations. And before I get jumped on, I have a DD of exact same age. They're friends.
There's nothing outrageous about disliking someone.

Oh, and the so-called "taboo" that apparently exists WRT not being able to say you dislike a child? I wish that such a taboo actually did exist but as far as I can see, many people (including many, many people right here on MN) have no problem whatsoever disliking children and being quite vocal about it. Of course, their own children are invariably perfectly delightful. But that little boy at the toddler playgroup who grabbed a toy from another child? Spawn of the devil, I tell you.

Don't be silly, user.

I see - Loose Women hey.

Fame!

I have three kids, done the three year old thing three times. The kid sounds like a nightmare. I actively dislike a lot of children. And I try to see some of my friends without their kids because their kids annoy the f**k out of me.

Stands back and waits for flaying

Well said Humphrey

The good thing is that once they get to nursery/school age, it usually passes as they soon realise, this doesn't work here

Why should nursery staff have to correct the parenting of these children?

Seriously this little girl is going to hate school - because she won't get her full one to one attention and get her own way - she needs to learn these lessons a bit sharpish -

Kids will actively avoid screaming children - she'll be left wondering why no one wants to play -

It a disservice to this poor child -

What?!