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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stag doo in Amsterdam

325 replies

Pixienott0005 · 18/04/2016 11:41

Is it me or would most other women feel unsettled about a shed loads of blokes getting rat arsed near the red light district?

OP posts:
Yipeekayee72 · 19/04/2016 16:54

You either cheat or you don't. Doesn't matter where you go. Even a lot of cheats wouldn't pay for it. They prefer the chase. I wouldn't overly worry.

kali110 · 19/04/2016 16:58

squirrel lol at me clutching my pearls Grin
You've tarnished every man!
Just because some people on here don't have a problem we must be naive Grin
Not all men go to strip clubs.
My dh isn't saying it to keep me happy, as i have no problem if he went!
I only toldyou what normally happens in strip clubs ( reputable ones here anyway) as you seem to be under the illusion that you can assault the women in there Confused

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer · 19/04/2016 17:10

British male stag do's have the worst reputation here

yep.

I'm wondering why British men really can't handle themselves, to get this (justified) reputation.

It's not even about sex clubs so much as the general beyond-belief excess. All part of the same thing.

As applepaltrow said People in Amsterdam should be avoiding us, not the other way round

Doesn't that make anyone on this thread wonder?

TaraCarter · 19/04/2016 17:24

It certainly makes me wonder why so many people seem to have the impression that it may be a popular destination with groups for the museums, art and cultural ambience!

It's not a slur on Amsterdam, it's a slur on groups of Brits on the town.

BabyBuzz · 19/04/2016 17:33

I'd be more annoyed at the cost of such a trip, without the added cost of whatever they choose to get up to in Amsterdam. If they are that way inclined, they don't have to travel all the way to Amsterdam. Most villages/towns/cities have more than enough sex (free and paid) on offer, without having to travel too far.

VoyageOfDad · 19/04/2016 18:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SquirrelStandoff · 19/04/2016 18:26

I'm wondering why British men really can't handle themselves, to get this (justified) reputation.

British men have had a terrible reputation for a long time - football hooliganism/Heysel Stadium disaster in the 80s. The stereotype is that Brits have culturally suppressed aggression and sexuality.

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer · 19/04/2016 20:44

I know ... but why do they behave so horribly? why is it considered acceptable? why aren't their own standards better?

TaraCarter · 19/04/2016 21:13

I think social spaces and activities are too rigidly 'streamed'. To go back to the original subject of this thread, I wouldn't worry about my DH in Amsterdam or anywhere else, but it wouldn't come up as an issue, because he wouldn't want to go on a trip like that. He wouldn't kid himself that it was going to be his idea of fun or that he'd do anything else other than being silently uncomfortable or leaving early. There's thousands like him and they all opt out of things like this. Which means there's the balance in stags and football crowds is skewed with a lack of the usual sensible and reliable sorts there to moderate behaviour.

pearlylum · 19/04/2016 21:22

Absolutely tara. My OH would run a mile from a stag do in Amsterdam, in fact any stag do.
Except people like your OH and mine are not very noteworthy for their behaviour.

TaraCarter · 19/04/2016 22:14

It's a vicious circle, isn't it?

PageStillNotFound404 · 20/04/2016 08:32

YY to TaraCarter. Of course it's about perception. Many people have a sort of sound bite/snapshot/stereotypical view of a city that doesn't necessarily match up to the reality or by definition can't do justice to its complexity. E.g. Paris = romance, city of lovers, surly waiters. Rome = architecture, piazza cafes, pickpockets. Newcastle = drunken stag & hen parties. Amsterdam = weed & the red light district. Just because you (generic you) always had fabulous service when you ate in Paris on your hen party, never had your pocket picked in Rome when you were there for the football, spend all your time in Newcastle at the Sage and the Theatre Royal and practically live in Amsterdam's Museum of Cheese doesn't change that perception for other people, or mean there's not a grain of truth in the stereotype.

So it's hardly surprising that for some, "stag do in Amsterdam" makes their mind flash immediately to "weed and red light district". Especially as it's entirely possible that the stag or the organiser has made the same mental leap. Of course there is sex available pretty much everywhere, but most cities/towns/villages don't make a tourist attraction out of it and have it included on their city sightseeing bus tours. You have to seek it out or make more of an effort to find it. I was in Amsterdam last year and on the hop-on/hop-off bus, one of the stops was described as "this stop for X, Y, the red light district and Z".

I also find there is a kind of collective cognitive dissonance here between the numbers of women who always appear on stag party threads with the "my DH hates strip clubs / would never have a lap dance / respects women too much" comments, and those who appear on the Relationships board following a break up in which porn use, or sleeping with prostitutes, or frequenting strip clubs, or serial cheating is a factor. It's one thing to trust your partner until they prove untrustworthy. It's another to make such bold statements about their true views on the sex industry when both the sheer number of male "punters" and the possible consequences for a man who 'fessed up to his partner that he enjoys strip clubs or is curious or would go along for a laugh/not to be the party pooper suggest that a proportion of the first group of "my partner never would..." women's SOs has to be lying.

But as the OP hasn't returned, the original point is probably moot.

MrNoseybonk · 20/04/2016 11:58

Most villages/towns/cities have more than enough sex (free and paid) on offer, without having to travel too far.

I'm fairly sure my village doesn't have paid sex on offer, or if it is it's not a lady stood in a red-lit window between the butchers and the post office.
And men don't flock here from all round the world to visit her.

Pixienott0005 · 20/04/2016 15:40

Glad to know it's not just me that thinks it's unreasonable

OP posts:
pearlylum · 20/04/2016 17:01

"I also find there is a kind of collective cognitive dissonance here between the numbers of women who always appear on stag party threads with the "my DH hates strip clubs / would never have a lap dance / respects women too much" comments, "

I disagree. I have known my OH for 30 years, 20 years together, and 10 years as a friend ( well the brother of one of my best friends). We have socialised together as singletons in a group and when we both had other partners.

I have seen his attitude when some of the more rowdy boys would decide to go downtown to a go go bar, a strip club or to continue to have a night out on the lash. He was always one of us who would want to come home, maybe have a brandy and some supper.

I know he feels very uncomfortable on a "lads night out" and especially if the group visits an establishment with naked or performing women. We have spoken about it, he has no reason to lie. He finds these scenes cringeworthy.
p
Pagestill, maybe that is your experience of men- but you haven't met all men, and it is an unfair generalisation to tar all men with the same brush.

PageStillNotFound404 · 20/04/2016 17:33

Pearlylum can you point out where I tarred all men with the same brush? Perhaps you missed the key words "a proportion" in my final sentence?

IcingandSlicing · 20/04/2016 17:48

I wouldn't ever have a relationship nor marry a person capable of visiting stip clubs. Even if that would limit my choice of partners to a handful of people so to speak.
The 'look but don't touch' approach doesn't work for me. If he can go to strip clubs and basically enjoy himself so can I. If I don't do that I expect him not to too, but in his own accord.

So, what is your hen do going to be? Do something equally distressing for him involving lots of semi naked men.

TheDowagerCuntess · 20/04/2016 18:49

So what are we saying, then?

The overwhelming majority of men are lying, penis-driven arseholes, with no control over themselves?

Bit depressing, if true.

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer · 20/04/2016 20:57

actually I think they -could- control themselves but choose not to ... the laddish culture.

HelenaDove · 20/04/2016 22:16

It totally depends on the person. Ive never been to a hen night. Its just not my thing and ive never been drunk.

Im teetotal and when i mention ive never been pissed i get looked at like ive got two heads. Thats the way society seems to have swung. And it looks like there is no coming back from it.

HelenaDove · 20/04/2016 22:18

And im 42 so i usually get "And youve never been pissed even once not even when you were younger?

NO

kali110 · 21/04/2016 02:41

thedow yep Apparently so Hmm
pearly so the majority of the men who say they don't like them must be lying?
Does that apply to women too? Do majority of women like male strippers?
I absolutely hate it, been to one and found it the most boring thing ever.
I know my dh won't even go into a strip club, nothing to do with my opinions as i've always said if he wants to go that's fine with me!

SquirrelStandoff · 21/04/2016 10:53

kali
"I know my dh won't even go into a strip club, nothing to do with my opinions"

So you have selected a partner who can't stand strip clubs.. doesn't that make it disingenuous of you to say then "as i've always said if he wants to go that's fine with me!" since you don't have a genuine issue there?

However, since you are being hypothetical, I would honestly like to know where you would draw the line since it can be blurry between
a) watching the strippers whilst getting hustled for private lapdances (which can include some pushy behaviour like groping him/rubbing up against him),
b) having private lapdances whilst observing the no-touching rules,
c) having private lapdances where the rules aren't so clearly expressed or enforced (but are a hairs breadth from having a naked woman you don't know grinding on your lap) including anything within licking/groping/digitally penetrating or being licked/groped given a hand job or
d) going to a brothel or street walker to get any of the acts in (c)?

So I genuinely would love to know the point where you (or any other women who don't mind) would feel uncomfortable and where you would draw the line.

SquirrelStandoff · 21/04/2016 10:58

Also not just where you draw the line, but why you draw it there? Thanks in advance

kali110 · 22/04/2016 19:48

So i should go find someone who does like to go to strip clubs then??Grin
I have no problems if my dh wanted to go, but he doesn't, nothing to do with me.
I don't fit in with your ideas though, because my dh is obviously avoiding them because of me isn't he Grin