to tell potential BIL the truth.

[ForTheSakeOfFuck]

Apologies in advance. To avoid drip-feeding this is going to be pretty long.

A few years ago, we found out that SIL had run herself into an epic amount of debt. The kind of amount that if you won it, you might even think about retiring. The details are pretty identifying so I can't go into them but it's enough to say that it was a combination of massive loans and burning through money that had been entrusted to her and she has literally nothing to show for any of it, ffs. Anyway, after she lost her house her DPs stepped forth and put another roof over her head. (I wouldn't have been so kind, but easier said when it's not your child.) All the while, they kept asking, "Have you told us about EVERYTHING you owe now?" and she kept swearing that she had, and then time and again, something new would come out from missed bills to unpaid bank loans. She is, by any standard, extremely secretive and would not have confessed to any of the debt had it not come out by accident, and she even tried to hide what she'd done via some ridiculously crap fraud that could have actually landed her in prison if the relative had wanted to go that far. In short, her finances are shot. If she does nothing but repay her debt for the rest of her life, she might finally clear it when she's seventy. She will never have a mortgage, she'll probably never get credit, and as far as her DPs are concerned, she can't have anything in her name for fear that it'll get frittered away, so she's effectively on permanent financial probation with them. (Again, not my choice of solution, but what can you do.)

Second factor: she's also a disaster with relationships. She either picks truly awful characters, or if she finds a semi-decent one, she goes so overboard with jealous control that she sends them running for the hills. None of her relationships make it past the two year mark and most die a gruesome death before six months. Finally, for good measure, she's increasingly desperate for babies (she has none so far), and time is moving on for her. Back to the present: A couple of months ago she started seeing someone new. He's a complete step-change from her past efforts - solvent, serious, quiet, hard-working, stable - in fact I'm kind of at a loss to figure out (a) why he isn't already taken and (b) what he sees in her. Whatever the case, DH and I think that if she has a shot of making a family happen with anyone, this guy would be a great option, BUT we don't think she's told him about her finances. She swears that she has, but knowing her character as I think I do, I wouldn't put it past her to have brushed it all off as "a little bit of money owed", if she's even said that much, and then rush to get pregnant, because, by her logic, he'd then be stuck with her. We're not sure what to do. Do we pull him to one side and make sure he really does have all the facts? Or do we stay out of it and let it all go however it's going to go? He's a nice guy and I think he deserves to know, but I'm also conscious that it's meddling in someone else's relationship and I'd be furious if someone did that to me. Then again, if she were a serial batterer, I wouldn't hesitate to tell him. I just don't know where the line is drawn here. Also, selfishly, if it all goes wrong and he leaves, it'll end up becoming our problem. She barely gets on with her DPs anymore - no surprise - and she can't even run her own household, so as a single mother there is simply no way she wouldn't end up crashing and burning.

In her favour, I want to say that she is a great auntie to our DCs - they bloody love her, and after a lot of failure and mess, I REALLY want her to finally have some stability and joy and a focus outside of herself in her life. I also think that with the right support around her - and maybe this guy could be it - she would probably grow into a great mother and partner. I would be properly and seriously delighted relieved if he knew the truth, and despite it, they could still live happily ever after, but what's the right way forward? Do we shut up and watch and wait? Or speak with the guy? Or what?? and if you read this far!

Im assuming it's your husbands sister? I would get HIM to speak to this guy. Perhaps a causal drink down the pub and for him to mention "you do know about my sisters past debts don't you?" and ensure that in a nice, manner that he fully understands.

It is NOT interfering it is watching out for her and him

I'd like to know how many of the posters on here with their MYOB attitude would feel the same if your SIL's boyfriend was their son.

A very good way of looking at it. I suspect that the answers would be very different.

I think because of the scale of the problem and because of your SIL's immature attitude, someone probably does need to tell her partner. It's interesting that she hasn't introduced him to her parents yet - could she be waiting until she gets pregnant?

I was grateful when a friend warned me off a guy with debts and another friend was grateful when I warned her off a friend who had told me he'd had unprotected sex whilst travelling across Asia and had caught hepatitis. Some things are too serious to be keep secret.

My initial reaction was don't get involved but from reading your posts I think that warning him is the decent thing to do. Putting myself in his position, after university I worked hard, made sure I shared debt free and saved for a deposit. Before i ended up buying a house I met my now DH and we ended up using some of the money to buy our own place. I would have been heartbroken to find out that he had a lot of debt, especially at the level you appear to be talking about. This sounds like a decent guy so if your DH speaks to him and he already knows, no harm done. If he speaks to him and he doesn't know he may be able to protect himself.

If this post was in reverse and a woman came on here saying she'd been stung by a guy with a load of debt I think people would be saying very different things. Namely LTB!!

Some things are too serious to keep secret

Exactly, Capricorn

for those saying it's hypothetical, why should this man be led further and deeper into the relationship only then to find out she is a disaster? Surely the sooner he knows the sooner he can make up his mind about whether he wants to commit anymore time to this relationship?

Why wait until it will be even more painful to have to walk away. If he decides to pursue it then at least he knows that her family have his best interests at heart and aren't covering anything up?

If it was £200 it would be interfering but from the description of the amount and her living in denial it sounds like she has a VERY SERIOUS problem coupled now with her desire to have a baby. If her handling of her financial problems is anything to go by what will her approach be to getting pregnant?

Imagine if this was your son whose new partner was hiding this. Would you feel the same?

Seeing as she has said that she's told him you don' even need to be covert about mentioning it to him. Just bring it up in conversation in front of her. You'll know by her reaction just how honest she's been. It also gives you room to continue the conversation alone with him afterwards if she reacts badly. I do think he needs to know.

Quite frankly I'd be furious if my DSD/DS ended up married to someone who had such massive debts and it hadn't been disclosed.

This man has a right to know what he is getting into. He can then make an informed judgement.

Yes he's a BF for now, but at what point do you tell him - the hour before he walks down the isle?

Generally I advocate MYOB - but the scale of the debt means I could not turn a blind eye to this.

It could absolutely ruin someone - especially as the SIL seems in complete denial.

For those who stay keep quiet I'd ask how you'd feel if a family member ended up liable for HUGE life crippling debts because no one in the OH's family thought it was their business to tell you?

Sorry just to add - SIL has royally fucked up her own financial future.

I personally couldn't stand by and watch her do it to someone else.

She may have told him - but I would not feel comfortable assuming that given her history. I think the DH should mention the scale of the debt and take it from there.

The whole thing of MYOB feels a bit like watching a mugging talking place and instead of intervening to help the victim silently watching from a safe distance.

Can you or DH perhaps drop something into conversation about DPIL owning her house, maybe as part of an innocuous discussion about where he lives/local house prices or something? If she hasn't told him this then she's probably been telling white lies about it, since I am fairly sure that in most relationships the couple have basic conversations in the early days like "so, do you rent this place or have you bought it?". So he'll question her further about it afterwards if DPIL owning it is news to him and that may prompt a wider discussion.

You're in the clear as she has assured you that she's already told him everything.

OK, this is going to sound a weird suggestion (and as an atheist, I can't believe I'm making it) but do you know a sympathetic vicar or priest you can talk this dilemma over with? They have generally heard/seen it all before and then some.

I'd tell him. This isn't a little past mistake, this is a gigantic fuck up that must have gone on knowingly for years. It doesn't sound like she's properly faced it except what she's been forced to by her parents. It just isn't fair on him.

If he stays then he's staying with full knowledge. It's only fair. Otherwise you all could be waiting for it to suddenly blow up when he finds out. Better before kids are involved.

Unless she is unwell, she only has herself to blame. Hopefully she's been a grown up and told him already.

I also wonder how the answers would be different if it was the boyfriend who was the wasteful devious spendthrift and the OP was concerned about her SIL being deceived and conned by him.

Wow, there are some seriously over invested posters clutching their pearls at the OP

I've actually been pondering on this one, SIL is v v similar to my sister, totally irresponsible when it comes to money, and constantly bailed out by her parents. Hasn't done her any favours at all, she's 45, still sponging off them, living in a house they bought her, driving around in cars they buy her. But AFAIK she hasn't racked up hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt (btw that's the sum I thought we were talking about too, millions is simply being ridiculously hysterical).

Anyway, having thought about it at length, I've reached the conclusion that this guy absolutely needs to know. Why? Because if it were a child of mine in his position, and nobody warned them, I would be absolutely murderously angry. This is a LIFE CHANGING level of debt, for HIM, and he needs to know.

Those of you sitting on the fence. Think what it would be like if a child of yours discovered they'd married/had a child with someone who has that level of debt. Would you encourage them to continue the relationship, because I sure as fuck wouldn't.

Totally agree that the responses would be very different if he was the one who was in debt.

if the PIL are trying to sell the house, she is going to have to move.
its easy to have that conversation in front of bf.
"SIL, where are you going to live when the house is sold?..... how much is left after the deductions?how will you pay your rent?"

What stratter5 said.

And tbh, I wouldnt really give a fuck if sil went nc with me. Good riddance.

The fact she hasn't introduced him to her parents proves she hasn't told him the full extent of her debt. I'd put money on it arf she has told him nothing at all.

Op this would have been better in the relationships forum.

This is interesting

I've tried to link Debtors Anonymous but phone playing up - do have a look. You'll recognise it ALL

I think the reason she hasn't introduced him to her parents is that they would drop her in it, which suggests the boyfriend has no knowledge of the amount of debt. She has probably told him that she is paying off a "few loans" if that.

Does he know/is aware that her home is owned by her parents? If she were my daughter and I had bought a house for her to live in I would be contemplating selling it once she was in what I considered a stable relationship

Another vote for you must tell him, preferably DH. For those saying it is none of your business, of course it is, if she gets into more trouble your PILs will have to bail her out more, she may be asking you for money and support, as you should not have needed to explain so clearly, all of this will have a knock on effect on the whole family, including you and your DH!

I'd be more concerned about what she did with all that money - and more to the point, whether she's still doing it. I mean, where did it go? Holidays? Clothes? a mortgage she couldn't afford and kept defaulting on? Or gambling, investing, hidden spending? If her DP's reasonably alert, he'll surely see a disparity between her income and her obvious outgoings and ask questions about that, but if her spending problem is invisible, and still rampant, then she needs help/an intervention as much as he needs to know about it. Because at some point you'll all be dealing with this again.

Lljkk: I don't care if MNers think it's unreasonable. I would pull a nice guy aside & say something. Like "Did she tell you she had bad money troubles before? Look I don't want to go into detail, but you really should ask her directly about it. I know she wants to do better." If I got uninvited to the wedding, so be it. My conscience would be very clean.

I agree

ForTheSake - I must admit I MYOB lot when I started reading your post. By the middle I was thinking "drop a hint if they look like tying the knot" and now I reckon DH probably does need to say something, probably quite soon at that.

But more than anything I wanted to say you've handled yourself ridiculously well dealing with some really obnoxious posters. Plus I wanted to post a link to the Advisors on the National Debt Helpline. Am not sure if they take calls from relatives of people with Debt problems, but they look like good people and should at least be able to tell you who to contact if they can't help. As the one thing I've not yet seen on this stream is anyone with much expertise in this area: and I suspect you could use some! Good luck!

www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/about/Pages/ourdebtadvisers.aspx