to tell potential BIL the truth.

[ForTheSakeOfFuck]

Apologies in advance. To avoid drip-feeding this is going to be pretty long.

A few years ago, we found out that SIL had run herself into an epic amount of debt. The kind of amount that if you won it, you might even think about retiring. The details are pretty identifying so I can't go into them but it's enough to say that it was a combination of massive loans and burning through money that had been entrusted to her and she has literally nothing to show for any of it, ffs. Anyway, after she lost her house her DPs stepped forth and put another roof over her head. (I wouldn't have been so kind, but easier said when it's not your child.) All the while, they kept asking, "Have you told us about EVERYTHING you owe now?" and she kept swearing that she had, and then time and again, something new would come out from missed bills to unpaid bank loans. She is, by any standard, extremely secretive and would not have confessed to any of the debt had it not come out by accident, and she even tried to hide what she'd done via some ridiculously crap fraud that could have actually landed her in prison if the relative had wanted to go that far. In short, her finances are shot. If she does nothing but repay her debt for the rest of her life, she might finally clear it when she's seventy. She will never have a mortgage, she'll probably never get credit, and as far as her DPs are concerned, she can't have anything in her name for fear that it'll get frittered away, so she's effectively on permanent financial probation with them. (Again, not my choice of solution, but what can you do.)

Second factor: she's also a disaster with relationships. She either picks truly awful characters, or if she finds a semi-decent one, she goes so overboard with jealous control that she sends them running for the hills. None of her relationships make it past the two year mark and most die a gruesome death before six months. Finally, for good measure, she's increasingly desperate for babies (she has none so far), and time is moving on for her. Back to the present: A couple of months ago she started seeing someone new. He's a complete step-change from her past efforts - solvent, serious, quiet, hard-working, stable - in fact I'm kind of at a loss to figure out (a) why he isn't already taken and (b) what he sees in her. Whatever the case, DH and I think that if she has a shot of making a family happen with anyone, this guy would be a great option, BUT we don't think she's told him about her finances. She swears that she has, but knowing her character as I think I do, I wouldn't put it past her to have brushed it all off as "a little bit of money owed", if she's even said that much, and then rush to get pregnant, because, by her logic, he'd then be stuck with her. We're not sure what to do. Do we pull him to one side and make sure he really does have all the facts? Or do we stay out of it and let it all go however it's going to go? He's a nice guy and I think he deserves to know, but I'm also conscious that it's meddling in someone else's relationship and I'd be furious if someone did that to me. Then again, if she were a serial batterer, I wouldn't hesitate to tell him. I just don't know where the line is drawn here. Also, selfishly, if it all goes wrong and he leaves, it'll end up becoming our problem. She barely gets on with her DPs anymore - no surprise - and she can't even run her own household, so as a single mother there is simply no way she wouldn't end up crashing and burning.

In her favour, I want to say that she is a great auntie to our DCs - they bloody love her, and after a lot of failure and mess, I REALLY want her to finally have some stability and joy and a focus outside of herself in her life. I also think that with the right support around her - and maybe this guy could be it - she would probably grow into a great mother and partner. I would be properly and seriously delighted relieved if he knew the truth, and despite it, they could still live happily ever after, but what's the right way forward? Do we shut up and watch and wait? Or speak with the guy? Or what?? and if you read this far!

EverySongbirdSays
How on earth would Bill find out though? There isn't identifying info in the post only that they started seeing each other a couple of months ago, which could be lots of couples and that she has serious debts, which he might not even know. He's also unlikely to follow mumsnet, I know there are some men and people without children on here but the odds of one of them being Bill are slim.

And then you could report back to the forum on both your fun and your SIL's status ..

Wow. Talk about living vicariously. And the OP is the one with the issue?!

Maybe get a life of of your own "Pippa, yeah?

Damsel it is as is the OP's entire dilemma here - a total hypothetical.

But how is she even going to address this herself

Hey, Bill it's me Fuck, DID YOU KNOW Sill has debts of X amount HAS SHE TOLD YOU? WERE YOU GOING TO MARRY HER? WILL YOU STILL MARRY HER NOW? I THOUGHT YOU OUGHT TO KNOW IN CASE YOU WERE THINKING OF MARRYING HER YOU SEE???????!!!! I started a topic on an internet forum about it.

It's bonkers. Utterly bonkers.

its. none. of. your. business.

i dont really have words for how confused I am that you think at any point, any of this is anything to do with you!

you are talking about a potential homeless baby. that doesn't exist. froma couple who may or may not be thinking on those lines. who may or may not already know.

you're bonkers. utterly, bloody bonkers.

Without a doubt I'd tell him, if someone knew that my partner had serious money problems and I wasn't told I'd be devastated, particularly if we had kids and were married etc.

Op, you don't have to tell him - sil already has.

All you need to do is drop it into the conversation when sil isn't there.

'Sil's oh, I just want to say how much respect I have for you for sticking with her desire the fact that she is in shedloads of debt. I'm not sure that, given the amount, I'd do the same in your shoes'.

After all, she swears she has already told him.

Despite the fact. Oops.

Mumsnet at it again.

OP FWIW, I would feel exactly the same as you. It's perfectly normal and human not to want to see someone shafted for all their hard earned money by someone who very likely will do so.

It's also not unreasonable to want her to sort her life out so she isn't a drain on you either financially or emotionally.

If her DPs are so verbal about her finances now, it Is likely he will hear something from them fairly soon anyway.

I wonder what the response here would be if the OP's sil had a history of beating up her partners. Or, if it wasn't a woman but a man with a history of violence/addiction. Would it still be nobody's business?

Imagine if a poster posted here that she'd just found out her partner of say, three years was in debt to the tune of hundreds of thousands. Remember the op says here that she got into debt to the tune of a life-changing sum, so not a small amount of money here. Imagine then if that poster said that her ILs knew all along, in fact they had baled him out, paid off his debts etc, but they didn't feel it was any of their business to tell. Would posters really defend them and say "no, it wasn't for them to tell you, you're an adult, you should have done your homework." Somehow I think not.

The reality is that if the ILs have paid off her debts etc then she probably doesn't have a shot credit history, and as such could potentially get into more and more debt and implicate this man as well. Mortgages, credit cards, the list goes on.

I know people who have got into debt through circumstance and have ended up bankrupt, losing their house, having to live on cash only as when you're bankrupt you're not allowed a debit card, having to essentially declare everything they spend, and yet accepting what position they've ended up in and doing everything in their power to bring their lives back to normal. Clearly the SIL in this op has done none of those things, neither does she take responsibility for her financial position it seems.

As the SIL I might not take the new BF to one side, but if it was my sister then I might, therefore if the OP's DH felt strongly enough about it I wouldn't consider him to be in the wrong. If she never spoke to him again, well this is a woman who it seems has lied and manipulated her way through life and whose family have always had to bale her out. Clearly she doesn't take responsibility for her own actions.

People on here are being a bit weird. This woman is a menace to her family and could ruin this man's finances.

I would tell the nice boyfriend and if SIL never speaks to you again (I.e. never asks your DH to bail her out) then that's an added benefit.

I think if they were getting married then you'd have to take her aside and tell her to be honest about her finances with him or you would be. There's no way she can get married. At least not to anyone with an ounce of sense.

As for her having babies and him being tied to her, surely this is what you want, for them to make a go of it. The only thing you can do is talk to her and suggest she talks to him about how bad she is with money and they make a plan for the future.

I'd just steer well clear tbh.

What BlueMoonRising said. Afterall, she has told him, so it's fine for you to casually refer to her debt in passing, as he already knows everything, right.

I have a very good friend who has an EXH like this. He had an affair and left her AFTER she'd spent years sorting out the financial mess that he'd put them in. It was all hidden (he worked for a bank and it was only after he got sacked that she found out the true extent of the debt they were in) and she spent years scrimping and saving to get them out of it and through sheer hardwork she did it. Then he left her.

Since then he has had 3 relationships and every woman has been left ruined by him financially. My friend doesn't have a relationship with her Ex at all, even though he's the father of their child. He offers no financial support and only sees their DD occasionally. But my friend said now that she wishes she'd intervened with his subsequent relationships to warn the women as two of them had children (none of the children are his though) and all except one have now lost their homes.

I would want to know if I was about to embark on a relationship where I could lose everything.

However, it IS early days so maybe give it a bit more time to see if the relationship is actually going to last before you say something to him...

I am with WannaBe on this one. And I suspect a few more posters would be if this was a woman who was potentially being lied and risking financial catastrophe.

They are going to be ILs so presumably will be meeting this man and talking to him; pretending that she is a normal woman with a normal life is going to require an awful lot of cover-up; very soon, I imagine, getting into direct lie territory. if it is done, it should be done by her own brother though, not by the SIL.

I kind of understand what op is feeling.

I have a similar issue with BIL, I wish I could tell his gf that he is a cheating scumbag, that when he is visiting his kids he is also meeting women on line and asking me for my friends phone numbers.

I just have to avoid her now as every time I see her she has a million questions about him and I'm not lying for that fucker -yet if I told the truth 1) she would probally stay with him 2) Dh would fall out with me big time.

😁

Have a nice family dinner, and the DPs will spill all anyway by the sounds of it.

It seems like you've got majorly ahead of yourself. I genuinely don't mean this in a patronising way, but are you bored? You're hypothesising and fantasising about problems you/ your SIL may face in months and years time. The fact is you don't know what she's told this SeriousStableSolvent: he certainly should be referred to as "potential BIL" yet. She isn't pregnant. You don't seem to know her full current financial situation. You don't know she's going to come running to you IF their relationship progresses and IF it all goes wrong. And if she does you do know you can just refuse to help don't you do it won't affect you anyway?

You obviously look down on/ despise her so I can't see you helping in a major way if it goes tits up like you obviously think she deserves.

Objectively the "right" thing to do is leave your adult SIL alone.

'Giving it time' 'Waitng till it progresses' 'They're not married'

BABY. The relationship does not have to progress in any meaningful way before she gets herself pregnant to him & traps him. Ruining his life & bringing a baby into a god awful situation.

I really don't think you have any choice but for your DH to talk to him, it's the only decent thing to do before this guy gets totally shafted in a life changing way. If he leaves her because of her LIES (not her debt, her lies) then she only has herself to blame for lying yet again about her debt ( saying she's told him). Best HE has that choice now & if he's going to leave her over her DECEIT best that he does it now for HER sake while she's still in the house (so not forced to live with her parents (or comes to you asking)) and best now for any potential BABY that might be brought into this mess.

There's no downside to your DH discussing it with him if she hasn't lied about having told him. If she's lied (yet again) about having told him, then your DH discussing it with him 'as he already knows' is her own doing...the guy deserves to know the truth, as he would if she had form for physical abuse/addiction etc, and if she won't tell him, then someone else who knows she's hiding her past like that should do the decent thing & tell him.

Well, I've got splinters in my arse from this one.

If this was my son, I'd want someone to tell him. But I agree that you need to have a better idea of what, if anything, she has told him first - because maybe he knows everything. But equally, he could know nothing. Or anywhere in between. This isn't just a couple of credit card debts.

Perhaps go for a meal and see what happens when you split the bill, or buying rounds of drinks. Seeing how the two of them handle money between them will give you more information.

And actually, in this situation, yes I would have one eye on my own finances and the future. Especially if she's used to being bailed out.

I can understand why you're concerned, you feel you'd be responsible for her after the fall out. But as others have said, your getting a bit beyond yourself.

Just wait for a while and see how things go. They might not even stay together! But if things looked like they were getting serious, you DH should to take her to one side to ensure he knows about the money issues.

Mind you, your SIL will probably never speak to either of you again.

I can understand the OP worrying. The have a BIL who is a similar train wreck, except it was drug dealers thugs turning up at the door instead of bailiffs.

Being an in law doesn't diminish the stress or the feeling you're viewing a car crash you could stop if you just said the word.

So hard....
What if one day when she is over being a great aunt to your kids, over a cup of tea. You could gently say how much you think the bf is lovely, & you are so glad she seems happy. & without being too brusque. say as a friendly warning, if she really wants to make this work, she is going to need to tell him the whole truth. as when he finds out about the LYING over the debt, & he will, it will be over before you have washed up the teacups.
its not so much the debt, but the omission to tell the full truth, that will cause the implosion.
I don't think this is being a busy body, more like a heads up...
(Still relying on her being a normal functioning human being though ... on the fence too)

She's unlikely to get herself pregnant latte, and I'm sure even nice guys can use condoms.

As she has apparently aready told him, I'd just drop a comment in about it at some opportune moment. "How nice it is to see sil has met someone nice and stable after all the mess with her debts.." or something like that. See how he responds and if he really does know. I would definitely make sure he knew before it got serious, but try to do it lightly rather than sitting him down for a Talk.

I'd feel exactly the same about a man in this situation. A pretty distant relative motivated by spite who has made a moral judgement that SIL doesn't deserve a partner or a family or even a roof over her head and has set herself up as the moral arbiter who will prevent that happening shouldn't be the one to 'tell' in any situation.

If anybody needs to tell him then the best way would probably be if one of her parents got her to agree to sit down with them and him and talk it through, or if she wouldn't do that maybe discussed it tactfully themselves. But, y'know, someone who actually cares about her, rather than someone who is gleefully rubbing their hands over her misfortune.

For a start, the account the OP has given of the debts is highly fantastical and extremely exaggerated at best. Financial institutions aren't in the habit of giving out unsecured loans of the magnitude of retirement money to people with no means to pay it off in their lifetime. Bankruptcy isn't prevented simply by having a job, particularly when the debts are so huge.

Given that the account on here is so clearly exaggerated, I don't expect the account given to the partner would be much more truthful.

Someone who is doing it for the reasons the OP clearly is shouldn't do it.

And incidentally people without much money often make great parents.