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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think divorce absolutely does affect children

309 replies

springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 19:24

I realise it's sometimes the only option, but AIBU to think there's too much of a casual attitude towards the impact it has on children, possibly because it's so common?

I'm not talking about abusive relationships where it's definitely better for the abused not to stay. But in some cases do you think it can be quite selfish?

Aware it's a contentious issue.

OP posts:
Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 21:34

I think I was just interested in people's views, ExtraHot; someone having a view that happens to be different to yours isn't goading. Otherwise every single thread on politics could be seen as goady!

I think that can often be the case, BestZebbie

OP posts:
Appleand · 17/04/2016 21:46

I hate it when adults say that kids are resilient. they're not, they just don't have any other choice than to cope with life. also they thankfully often have short memories, which helps.

Annanentity · 17/04/2016 21:46

I was brought up by a single parent. My parents divorced when I was about 3 and they remained on good terms. I missed my Dad but enjoyed his visits during school holidays. I don't have memories of my parents being together. They are very strong personalities and I don't think I would have enjoyed growing up with both of them under one roof.

I split from my ex but we coparent and live 5 minutes a part. Yes it was hard on my oldest DD during the horrible 6 months we still lived together after we had made the decision to split but now children are much happier than they were during the 3 years they lived with a mother who was stressed/frustrated/unhappy possibly depressed because she found being in the relationship so difficult. We never argued but the atmosphere was toxic and both me and my daughter were developing the begining of mental health problems. I will never regret leaving... I could not have left them in that atmosphere.

mathanxiety · 17/04/2016 21:47

But people aren't always unhappy but bored, or just feel it's not quite right. A really unhappy relationship with constant arguing is one thing, a friendly relationship that's just not that exciting is another.

Do you sincerely believe people who have children just split up because they are bored?

Do you really think people assume children will always be happier?
there is so much literature assuring parents that their children will, definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, be happy as long as they have happy parents and divorce will naturally lead to happiness, that I think parents listen to this refrain rather than being more objective about the situation.
Really? Or are you just making this up? Because I have most certainly never come across any literature stating this or even suggesting this in a mild way.

I think you really did start this thread to cause a bunfight. It is one of the goadiest threads I have come across.

Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 22:04

I know that they do, math

If you genuinely feel I started it for a fight then please do report it, because I didn't.

OP posts:
Yeahsure · 17/04/2016 22:09

I think it's interesting that some people can only regard the OP's motivations as being 'goady'. The OP has not been unpleasant and has returned to the thread several times with measured responses, it's a legitimate debate (as old as the hills).

There has been opportunity to discuss people's experiences and options but posters like Vaada have been unbelievably angry, aggressive and sarcastic.

You know what, it is not said enough that divorce is devastating for kids and I'm sick and tired of nodding along to self justification and downright blindness from some people in my life. It seems that we like to save the feelings of the adults when it comes to divorce more than the kids!

mathanxiety · 17/04/2016 22:09

How do you 'know that they do'?

Baconyum · 17/04/2016 22:11

Op I think some of your posts were goady. I don't know ANYONE who has divorced without bloody good reason

Abuse
Infidelity
Addiction

Are the usual reasons and usually a combination of at least 2 of these. In my case abuse and infidelity.

My parents are still together now despite my father's alcoholism and extremely abusive behaviour (so much so that my mother is convinced he would have her killed and that she couldn't cope alone anyway. The first is definitely a possibility to the point that she would probably be best emigrating)

I'm divorced and been single 13 years, partly my parents marriage and my own experience of marriage (despite I thought marrying someone nothing like my father) means I will never marry again.

The negative effects of the divorce on my dd aren't IMO due to the fact of my being divorced but due to a detached selfish arse of a father and the poverty that resulted (whether I've been working or not) which is partly due to the shit child maintenance system in UK.

What I DO think people take too lightly is having children. Unplanned pregnancies aside, I do know several people who've deliberately planned children less than 6 months after meeting!

mathanxiety · 17/04/2016 22:12

There is no debate. Of course it affects children. At the very least, it's a big change for them to cope with, and at worst it turns their lives upside down and inside out.

What is goady is the insistence that people lots and lots of them divorce with little or no thought to their children.

Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 22:12

Math, as I've already explained I'm not going to go into that I am afraid, because it could lead to identification as its via quite a small closed group.

YeahSure as you've doubtless noticed, I agree.

I am surprised others have never seen literature stating cheerily that happy parents mean happy kids, children are resilient, children are adaptable, children will be happier with separated parents than married ones who aren't happy. I constantly see it.

In some cases, that's true, but in others it just isn't.

It's still totally up to individuals to decide what the best path is, but I just feel it's naive to shrug off the feelings of the children as 'oh well they'll adapt.'

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/04/2016 22:15

Further to Baconyum's post, if you really care about children of divorced families OP, save your ire for the crap 'child support system', and the ever dwindling safety net of welfare, because money is one thing that really makes a difference to children's lives post divorce.

Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 22:15

Math I'm not entirely sure that's what I've said.

I think people do think of their children but tend to run with the advice that allows them to do as they want to do - listen to what pleases them if you like.

So if you hit a sticky patch with your wife and Lucy from the sales department keeps inviting you out for a drink and your wife has put on a couple of stone and seems grumpy a lot of the time and you read online and elsewhere that you shouldn't worry, your children will be FINE and after all, you are unhappy and your wife doesn't seem too happy either so that means the kids will be happier - Doesn't it?

Well NO, not in that instance.

However there are other examples where long term the children possibly would be happier. But that tends to be when the relationship is abusive (absolutely leave) or just intolerable.

OP posts:
Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 22:16

I don't think it is just money math

Money was never an issue in my family but I still suffered greatly from knowing I wasn't really wanted after a certain age.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/04/2016 22:18

I am sorry you are more afraid of outing yourself than offending other people by spouting what is demonstrably nonsense.

You can't seriously expect to go unchallenged when you state as fact something that you are not able to back up.

mathanxiety · 17/04/2016 22:20

So if you hit a sticky patch with your wife and Lucy from the sales department keeps inviting you out for a drink and your wife has put on a couple of stone and seems grumpy a lot of the time and you read online and elsewhere that you shouldn't worry, your children will be FINE and after all, you are unhappy and your wife doesn't seem too happy either so that means the kids will be happier - Doesn't it?

That's not divorce. That's the internal dialogue of someone who is selfish to the core, leading to adultery.

People who are committing adultery tell themselves all sorts of lies to justify it. People who divorce tend not to.

Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 22:21

Math, so if I say 'it's a woman called Jane and she lives in London...' Confused

It's not about outing myself but others.

If you feel it's being goady I honestly think you should report it. Mumsnet are very good at dealing with it IME so you can let them make that decision, I can assure you I wasn't but you're pretty fixed in your opinion, aren't you, so I don't think explaining I'm not being goady will work and it's just derailing the thread.

OP posts:
Lweji · 17/04/2016 22:23

Yes, I wonder if what you really mean is that children are affected by infidelity.

Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 22:24

Well not really, because in the above example the man could well decide that 'we are not happy any more' and opt to divorce, although infidelity can lead to the same result of course.

OP posts:
Yeahsure · 17/04/2016 22:25

I don't think 'lots and lots' of people divorce 'with little or no thought to their children'.

I think 'lots and lots of people' see a glimmer of grass is greener and that thought starts to grow, before they really ask themselves if they can improve their marriages before ending it.

I think lots and lots of people don't fully appreciate what their children will go through or are going through even though they love them as dearly as we all love our children.

I think lots and lots of people think if they are happy then their children are.

I think lots and lots of people ignore signs that their children are unhappy after divorce either because they are distracted by their own feelings or because it's too hard to face up to.

I see it and have seen it in RL, you can say that's bullshit and goady if you like.

Finallyonboard · 17/04/2016 22:26

I agree with you OP. I'll never make the choice to get divorced as I don't want my DC to go through what I went through.

Lweji · 17/04/2016 22:26

The example is always infidelity because instead of trying to sort things out with the spouse, the person is already eyeing up someone else.
It doesn't need to be a sexual relationship.

Original poster
springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 22:26

I think you articulated my own thoughts for me quite well there, YeahSure, thank you Flowers

OP posts:
Mousefinkle · 17/04/2016 22:28

Nobody divorces for fun. No one wakes up and thinks "I know what would be a laugh, I'll get a divorce today." It's often a long term build up of resentment and unhappiness. It's no way to live. Would you really rather have a lot of miserable parents wasting their children's precious childhood and years of their own life filled with negativity and bitterness or have them resolve it?

It's not a selfish thing at all. It's selfish to stick around 'for the children' and get into a situation where you become mentally ill, make some shit parenting decisions or cheat on your spouse.

TooOldForGlitter · 17/04/2016 22:28

Repeatedly telling people to report the thread if they think you're being goady changes nothing. You are being goady

You've judged huge swathes of people, fully knowing there are hundreds and hundreds of divorced people on here.

mathanxiety · 17/04/2016 22:32

So what you are saying is you know one person who got divorced lightly?