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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think divorce absolutely does affect children

309 replies

springtimevintagedream · 17/04/2016 19:24

I realise it's sometimes the only option, but AIBU to think there's too much of a casual attitude towards the impact it has on children, possibly because it's so common?

I'm not talking about abusive relationships where it's definitely better for the abused not to stay. But in some cases do you think it can be quite selfish?

Aware it's a contentious issue.

OP posts:
BeauGlacons · 23/04/2016 08:02

My parents separated when I was twelve. They didn't like each other. They got married in 1960 because they "had" to. I lived my dad so much. Really I just cried inside from 12 to 15. It affected my academic performance which I shrugged off as teenage lack of interest. Nobody knew or knows now how much it hurt me.

I was anorexic in my 20s, married early 30s. The message as far as I am concerned is don't mess your children about.

No abuse, no financial problems, no illness or other difficulties so as far as I am concerned they my mother could have got on with it.

I was one of two in my class with divorced parents, the shame and the gossip still makes me take an intake of breath.

SoConfused15 · 23/04/2016 09:35

On the Mumsnet Relationships board, there certainly is a casual attitude to divorce.
Husband being cagey with his phone? He must be having an affair! He has no respect for you or your children. End your marriage immediately or you are modelling a bad example of a relationship to your kids. Never mind any potential negative consequences, financial, emotional or otherwise.
It's pathetic.
Fortunately people in real life seem to exercise more common sense.

Duckdeamon · 23/04/2016 09:40
Hmm
InstinctivelyITry · 23/04/2016 15:26

Agree with posters who state its not the divorce per se, rather the behaviour of all parties.

Our kids come first. Actually, its easier to put them first now that the crappy marriage is over. My head space has so much room for them, their friends, their life stages.

I'm not distracted, I'm not crying, I'm not exhausted and sixk due to the stress any more. Maybe the kids will have fewer things but they'll never want for more love and ompassion from me, my parents and family. Id say they same goes for exDH's family too, although id say theyre more dysfunctional ....

I don't know if my marriage was abusive, it probably was , my kids are already saying they're happier with how things are now. Maybe that's to appease me, I don't know, but from their attitudes, behaviours and general mood; theyre doing fine. Id never take that for granted but ive thrown the dice and its the choice that has been made for everyone in the family. We sinply will never knowif their lives would have been better or worse. For me it would be guesswork.

flippinada · 23/04/2016 16:29

Instinctively Flowers

I think there's a rather misogynistic undertone to all this - the suggestion that women are silly creatures who don't understand how serious marraige is and end relationships for trivial reasons, like being bored or because someone on a talkboard tells them to.

flippinada · 23/04/2016 16:36

Having read back throuh the thread I do know not everyone is saying this - but some posts definitely imply it..

itsbetterthanabox · 23/04/2016 17:10

Beauglacons
You loved your father. Yes we all do. Did you not still see him then? My parents split but I still saw the father I loved.

TealLove · 23/04/2016 17:18

I think this is such a difficult question. I think some are far too frivolous about splitting and I've seen first hand the consequences a non mindful, selfish split can cause.
However if you're not happy you're not happy.
Each situation is different and unique.

BeauGlacons · 23/04/2016 18:34

I saw him far less. He moved to a different City and when I was 14 went to work in the US for five years. My mother was always awkward about me visiting. Their divorce was vitriolic.

InstinctivelyITry · 23/04/2016 18:42

thank you flippinada

Beau - that sounds bloody horrible

I realise only too well that relationships are as unique as the people that are in them.

even though exDH was a shit husband I don't necessarily believe he'll make someone else a shit husband.

If hes any sense he'll learn from what has happened, as I have, and move on in life.
I hope to be off the anti-depressants soon after being on them for the best part of 12 years. I'm not a finished product by any means but I am much wiser and more compassionate because of my situation - in a weird way I'm grateful!

mathanxiety · 23/04/2016 19:04

Same here Instinctively. DD1 joined us downstairs in the sitting room to watch TV for the first time in years when exH finally left.

And YY to Baconyum -- 'only my best friend...'
I don't live my life on Facebook. There are two people in my community who know what really went on in my home. One is a friend and also a lawyer, who has given me advice in dealing with exH post divorce.

"No abuse, no financial problems, no illness or other difficulties so as far as I am concerned they my mother could have got on with it." [BeauGlacons]
...As far as you know.
You may not know the full story.
My own children do not know the full story of mine and ExH's relationship, not the hands around my neck, not being pinned to the wall while he spat in my face, not the gay porn I found or the implications that predilection had for my health, nothing about the way he never allowed me to know our true financial picture, because I did not want to prejudice their chances of developing a post divorce relationship with exH. I shouldn't have bothered as he managed to alienate them all one by one over the years of visitation.

This comment is also for Bumshkawahwah, who even admits she does not know the woman she is judging. Do you know where the father of the devastated child is? How is his new life going? Do you judge him for his part in easing the grief of his child?

There most certainly is a sexist expectation here that women should be more conscientious in their decision-making. Many abused women (and abuse includes emotional abuse, psychological, sexual, financial and other invisible forms) put a very brave face on for their communities' benefit.

mathanxiety · 23/04/2016 19:05

'...in not easing...'

isitginoclock · 23/04/2016 20:32

YABU. I'd say it was much more "selfish" to raise a child within a toxic relationship.
I have a much better relationship with both of my parents since they divorced. They are both much happier as individuals.

houseeveryweekend · 23/04/2016 20:44

It effects children badly to see an unhealthy relationship between their parents. It doesn't matter if the parents are together or not what matters is how they behave to one another. Staying together 'for the kids' can sometimes have a far worse effect on them than separating. They learn about how a relationship should be from you. They also learn about themselves from you. If you are criticising or fighting with the other parent in front of them they will internalise that. The person you are fighting with is part of them, traits that you may criticise in your partner are traits that your child may have, they can end up hating themselves. Children don't have the experience to realise that things aren't about them, any tension between their parents they will again internalise and make about themselves.

VoldysGoneMouldy · 23/04/2016 20:52

My dad left for a while when I was ten. He was an absolute twat before he left, and has left me damaged by his actions for the rest of my life. He came back, and it was never spoken of again. When it was spoken of, I was told off, for wanting to discuss the trauma I was left with. Nearly twenty years later, it's still hush hush. It would have been better for me if he had left forever, and we could have had an at least semi healthy relationship, and I could have processed everything with distance. My parents seem vaguely happy, but think my mum would be a lot happier if he had left all those years ago.

Of course divorce affects children. But so does a shitty relationship dynamic surrounding them.

bertsdinner · 23/04/2016 22:00

My parents divorced when I was 13 and it did affect me.
My dad was caught out having an affair, one of many. My mum tried to "forgive" him and hold the marriage together, but he carried on seeing his other woman, and in the end my mum threw him out and started divorce proceedings.

I still saw a lot of my dad and they tried to keep it amicable for the sake of me and my siblings. It was still a massive upheaval. I remember feeling like my world had blown apart.

The worse part of it was other people's reactions. This was in the mid 80s, in a small town. My sister came home from school in tears because other kids were saying she didnt have a dad, and was now a "bastard". I remember the utter glee some of my friends parents had, enjoying the scandal. I remember being told by my best friend's mum that children of divorced parents don't amount to anything. I feel we went from being "nice" kids, to worthless. They seemed to enjoy our misery.

I did get over the negative feelings, and I think my mum was right to divorce my dad. But, I feel I became very cynical at a young age about other people.
I feel I saw, at a very young age, how ugly people really are. It also made me angry towards my dad and affected my relationship with him for years after.

I think a lot of the stigma has gone now and its probably better. I do also think it's better to divorce than stay together and be unhappy. I hope people's attitudes to divorce are better than when I was a a teenager.
The stigma surrounding divorce back then affected me more than the divorce.

itsbetterthanabox · 23/04/2016 22:32

Beauglacons
The problem there isn't the divorce as such though. It's that he chose to longer bother to parent. And then to move away.
Splitting isn't an issue if both parents continue to be there for their children.

Slowlygettingthehangofthings · 23/04/2016 23:14

Voldy- I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Flowers it's terrible that your feelings were never acknowledged.

bertsdinner - I could have written your post, such was my experience. You hit the nail on the head with "I saw at a young age how ugly people really are". I was the same age as you and I remember being in the supermarket on my own, and two women from our church trying to press me for details and gossip. I was so humiliated.

I hope you have managed to process your anger towards your dad?

PoundingTheStreets · 23/04/2016 23:35

Most people don't divorce unless they really feel there is no other option. People don't like change and disruption, let alone the often significant change in living standards that come with a divorce, particularly for women.

The OP refers to boredom, or being "stuck in a rut." IMO when you start probing what someone means when they say that you'll find they've condensed years of resentment into that phrase, and the apparent indifference is more a reflection on the fact they've given up on being able to achieve change.

Take a typical example used by the OP of the couple who have had children and things have gone stale. When the woman files for divorce in that scenario IME it follows years of being left to do the drudge work, the majority of the cooking, the laundry, the ironing, the cleaning, the organising, taking time out to go to Drs with said children, packing the pack lunches, working out what needs to be on the shopping list (even if H actually does the shopping or the cooking)... etc. It's all consuming and leaves little time for W to actually be a person in her own right even assuming she has the energy to actually desire it.

...Meanwhile, H might have a hobby he prioritises, or goes to the gym regularly. It's a recipe for disaster as couples grow apart. And yet, if W says she's not prepared to do that anymore she'll often be told - (and often by other women) - that's she's overreacting to petty housework stuff, or that her H is actually brilliant because he cooks 4x a week and goes shopping (even though she is doing way more because of the laundry and the working out of what needs to go on the shopping list etc). But without that change from the H, who actually needs to pull his weight the full 50% so his W can 'get a life' and each remains interesting to each other, the marriage inevitably falls down.

And as for infidelity. Well, I don't think it's a stretch to say that the sort of person who can blatantly lie to and deceive their partner, chooses sex over time spent with their partner or children, and deflects family money for their own selfish gains, is probably the sort of person who is generally very selfish generally. Sometimes good people do stupid things and a marriage can be saved. Other times, the sort of character flaw that leads to infidelity is a character flaw that is damaging to the family unit (and therefore parenting quality) and divorce is the only sane solution.

IMO divorce is not the problem. IMO the main problem is that many people don't hold themselves or their partner to a high enough standard and be sure of that before getting married or having children. And when I say that, I don't mean to imply that I think 'many' people are stupid, because they aren't. What I mean is that we need to address the many social norms that encourage unhealthy relationships and normalise them.

Baconyum · 24/04/2016 00:28

Yes mathanxiety and others my daughter even my lawyer didn't know the full extent of what went on in my marriage (partly as it took years for ME to realise the full extent of the emotional and financial abuse/control I was dealing with, I thought of myself as a strong woman and certainly never would have tolerated the overt abuse my mother suffered/is suffering but my ex was more clever/insidious).

Also yyy to the subtle yet societally condoned still continuing misogyny that means women usually still DO all the grunt work! It's exhausting!

My ex used to say I wouldn't cope without him, the reality was I had much less to do without him! Not why we split but the split also meant no more picking up after him, no more organising him, no more of his laundry etc

mathanxiety · 24/04/2016 00:55

baconyum, for me it meant the relief of not having to second guess what I did in case it wasn't good enough for exH. I still did everything I had always done, but I felt a giddy sense of freedom even when I was cleaning the toilet or mucking out the cupboard under the sink or rinsing out sheets that someone had thrown up on, because there was nobody to come home and start complaining about what I hadn't got to. Or if the house was beyond reproach, that I 'never put anything away' as he impatiently put away all the ingredients I had out for making dinner -- his dinner, that he was going to eat, made by me for him, and he still complained...

A great post, PoundingThe Streets.

LilacSpunkMonkey · 24/04/2016 01:27

What a nasty, I'll thought-out, goady thread. And yes, it bloody is goady because the OP has been asked time and again and has yet to explain her motivations for starting the thread.

It's almost 3 years since my ex decided he wanted out. He'd been having an emotional affair for at least 18 months. Once he decided we were done that was it. There was no trying to sort things out, no counselling, nothing. We were over. At his instigation. I had zero input in what happened.

Has it affected our children? Of course it has. They only see their Dad every three weeks now. However when he sees them now he actually spends time with them and makes an effort. Before the split he worked away all week and was out with his friends/family every weekend. Now the children get a sober, happy Dad.

We weren't married so no divorce here but honestly OP, I took our split incredibly seriously. We were together for just under 19 years, childhood friends for 10 years before that. I didn't want to split. I was devastated. It still hurts, three years on. You have no idea at all.

TheDowagerCuntess · 24/04/2016 02:06

Don't worry, Lilac - apparently it's OK if it's you being unilaterally left. It just should never be you doing the leaving.

Total logic fail - either divorce is problematic or it's not. And to therefore not realise that this thread is going to be a double whammy to all the people who've been left to pick up the pieces and be the ones actually caring for their traumatised children, post-divorce - is what makes it so ill thought out.

Flowers
Bumshkawahwah · 24/04/2016 02:41

Math anxiety - I didn't say I didn't know this woman. I did, but I only as an acquaintance, someone I saw as part of a larger group. It was her that said she wanted out because she wanted to get more out of life (I was there when she said it). She said she wanted out before she started to resent her H, who she did love (but was not 'in love with) any more.

I did know her husband also and he was gutted. He wanted to work on their marriage and he didn't want to be apart from his children, the youngest of which was only one year old.

I'm certainly not saying she is the norm or that I don't believe in divorce, or that the vast, vast majority of people divorce as a last resort. Some posters were disbelieving that anyone would divorce for less than serious reasons so I gave this example. Yes, I am judging, a little, but I wouldn't ever have let her know that. She obviously thought it was the best decision for her.

My parents divorced when I was in my early twenties. They argued quite horribly for their while marriage and should have split up years ago. Having said that, I'm really, really glad they didn't split up when I was younger and that is probably quite selfish of me.

Baconyum · 24/04/2016 03:40

Bumsh you're missing the point...that could well have been all the woman you're talking about was willing to say in public! You can't possibly know what was going on behind closed doors.