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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not support my brother dating our cousin?

432 replies

ChickenDrumsticks · 09/04/2016 09:47

My brother has announced he is dating our cousin, and has been for around 3 months. She's Mum's sister's daughter. They have been posting lovey-dovey statuses on Facebook and have (according to mum) got very pissy when people have made criticisms. They both have 2 children from previous partners and are looking at buying a house together.

AIBU to not be supportive of this relationship? The kids are all between 8 and 11 and I worry it could adversely affect them. We live in a small town and it's only a matter of time before their school mates clock on.

We were very close as children and went on holidays etc together. The thought of seeing them kiss and cuddle absolutely turns my stomach.

My sister is with me on this, but mum is in denial saying she doesn't see the problem. He hasn't spoken to me directly about it (the announcement was a Facebook post along the lines of "no one has the right to judge us, love conquers all blah blah blah") but if he does I just can't pretend I'm OK with it

OP posts:
BeALert · 09/04/2016 14:44

Hmm...
700 children born with genetic disabilities due to cousin marriages every year

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7957808/700-children-born-with-genetic-disabilities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 09/04/2016 14:45

YNBU. I'm sure I'll be flamed but the fact that it's legal doesn't make it moral. It's incest and nothing will change my feelings on that. It's his first cousin the next step from a sibling. They're swimming in their own gene pool. I hope if they do have children all is okay but it is risky. Saying that though I suppose any pregnancy comes with risks.

Bogeyface · 09/04/2016 14:46

I have a friend who is living with her sisters brother, the same scenario that EatShitDerek is objecting to. The mutual sister cant wait for them to get married so that she can send a card "To my Brother and Sister on your wedding day" . She thinks it is hilarious and makes a point of telling people that her brother and sister are in a relationship just to see their faces :o

HermioneWeasley · 09/04/2016 14:52

It's icky

ManhattanMama · 09/04/2016 14:56

NC for this.

I was adopted as a baby and only met my half-brother when I was early 20s. I'm a happily married woman but am 'attracted' to him in a way that I can't imagine you would be to a sibling you are raised with. I've had sexual dreams about him and the rest.

I don't think it's entirely a physical thing though - for adopted people and those 'left behind' (my half-brother stayed with my natural mother) there can be a vacuum, however happy your life is. I can imagine that the mother and son in that story met, filled that vacuum for each other and then were desperate not to lose each other again. I have enormous empathy for their situation, although I wouldn't have gone to tell the papers all about it!

AdrenalineFudge · 09/04/2016 14:57

the fact that it's legal doesn't make it moral

Agree with this sentiment entirely. Even if they'd never layed eyes on each other till much later in their lives I'd still think it wrong. Even step siblings / family would be wrong imo and I consider myself to be very liberal in most areas.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 09/04/2016 15:00

Living with your sisters brother is fine. Completely different mum and dad. No genetic connections. If they have children though that'll make your friends sister auntie on both sides. Grin

HPsauciness · 09/04/2016 15:01

BeAlert that happens because in some communities there is already 10x the amount of genetic disorders due to long (many generations) of inter-breeding between some families, then the chance of two cousins having a problem is much higher.

In the general population, the risk is not much more than a non-genetic match.

Someone also said that cousins are genetically similar to siblings, this is not true at all- your sibling shares 50% of your DNA if a full sibling, a cousin only 12.5% on average.

So, not at all the same then.

customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/202907170-Average-percent-DNA-shared-between-relatives

alltouchedout · 09/04/2016 15:02

Meh, whatever. It's legal. The chances of their children having disabilities etc if they had any together are very small. Are they happy? Do they treat one another well? Are their dcs ok? Those things matter, other people going "eww" really doesn't.

BillBrysonsBeard · 09/04/2016 15:02

The being together wouldn't bother me but I think it's very selfish to have children together. I lived in the ME where marrying cousins is normal in religious families, and the health complications are huge.. Cancers are common in the children Sad It's sad but unfortunately tradition and culture are more important to some people.

AnotherPrickInTheWall · 09/04/2016 15:04

I think it is very weird. Legal in the UK but classed as incest in Hinduism and also most of Europe.

BeALert · 09/04/2016 15:08

BeAlert that happens because in some communities there is already 10x the amount of genetic disorders due to long (many generations) of inter-breeding between some families, then the chance of two cousins having a problem is much higher.

Sorry - I meant to quote the person who said said "In India loads of people marry cousins - I don't see the problem personally." That's who I was replying to...

mmgirish · 09/04/2016 15:10

I think YANBU. I would find this gross if I were in your position.

imwithspud · 09/04/2016 15:10

YANBU, legal or not I would find this really weird, as would everyone else in my family.

Lakiey · 09/04/2016 15:11

Just because it is legal doesn't mean that it is not incest. It is still incest. The meaning of incest:
1Sexual relations between people classed as being too closely. The risk may be low but is it a risk worth taking.

www.dawn.com/news/1212811
tribune.com.pk/story/572403/cousin-marriage-doubles-gene-risk-for-babies-study/
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7957808/700-children-born-with-genetic-disabilities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html

HPsauciness · 09/04/2016 15:13

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#/media/File:CousinMarriageWorld.svg

Another culturally I don't know, but it is legal in most of Europe. This diagram shows it is legal in most of the world, actually (not in Africa).

Op, I wouldn't 'support' it as in encourage it but then I don't go round 'supporting' anyone's relationship, I tend to consider it their own business and let them get on with it.

AnotherPrickInTheWall · 09/04/2016 15:25

First cousin marriage between SE Asians is much higher in the UK.
I know that birth defects are a major risk as a result of cousin marriage.. I see it every day, some families with 5 or 6 children all with different birth defects.
I used to work closely with a special school. About 30% of the children there had parents who were related.
You wouldn't breed your dog with it's first cousin would you?

2016IsANewYearforMe · 09/04/2016 15:28

YANBU

I find it yucky too. Incest is a deep taboo in our society. There is no law against it because it is historically rare. Cousins used to need a dispensation from the Pope to marry. It was an area policed by the church rather than the state. It turns my stomach, but I appreciate that some cultures see cousin marriage as desirable. Assuming you are a westerner, I can see why you aren't comfortable with this.

MrsLupo · 09/04/2016 15:58

I don't really think it is any of your business, really. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, and are not required to be happy for them but that really is as far as it goes. It's not something I would choose to do, but it's hardly unheard of. It is certainly not illegal.

What jacks said. And while, yes, the fact that it's not illegal doesn't necessarily make it right, I think you have to ask yourself why it's legal when other familial relationships aren't, in other words, that by objective standards the risks of genetic abnormality are low. In their shoes, I would do a bit of digging in the family medical history if they were planning to have children, as clearly not all genetic diseases are equal, either in cause or effect.

It honestly wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but then I've never met my cousins. I can see that in families where cousins consider themselves as close as siblings, it might seem incestuous, but as someone mentioned upthread, you can feel weird about potential partners in this way just because you've grown up in a close friensdhip group. It's just a feeling, not the truth of the matter.

So, while I can understand you feeling weirded out, OP, I think you need to take a deep breath and reconsider your reaction, particularly if you want to stay on good terms with your brother.

DistanceCall · 09/04/2016 16:06

Marriage between cousins poses a genetic risk when it is systematic - that is, when people go around marrying their first cousins all the time, because the gene pool is really reduced. When it's a one-off, as in most Western societies, the genetic risk is really rather low.

curren · 09/04/2016 16:16

Would you also be delighted for the mother and son who've been in the paper who have a sexual relationship - bit of back story, she had him young and he was adopted by someone else, 2 years ago they reconnected and are now lovers. Because she didn't raise him they don't see it as incest.

It's not even vague the same. The mother and son are now in hiding as they could be arrested. Legally it's not the same. The fact that you can't see this shows your reaction is OTT and is probably more shock than anything else.

Honestly, I wouldn't like it, but not enough to be so upset about it. It's odd, I wouldn't do it.

But you are getting yourself worked up with something that is nothing to do with you. Ignore it. It sounds like he has history of making bad decisions. Let him get one with it. It will possibly fizzle out quite quickly.

If you create drama or a family fall out it will push them closer together. It will be them two, in love, against the world.

You may be creeped out, buts it's not anything to do with you. Just let them get on with it.

SueTrinder · 09/04/2016 17:07

Apparently it is a common thing for close genetic relatives who first meet as adults to be attracted to each other. People with similar genetics are naturally attracted to each other, if they don't bond at a young age then the natural taboo against sexual relationships doesn't get established.

Yes, I've heard this about siblings who don't meet until adulthood. Can be quite distressing for the individuals as well as the wider family.

But cousins, meh. My grandfather's parents were cousins, he turned out alright. I only have 1 male cousin and he's like another brother to me because we grew up together. But DH has about 15 female cousins, who he has only met a few times. In that kind of situation some people might well find someone attractive.

The laws against marriage within a family are as much about preventing abusive situations as the genetics. As can be seen from the full list of who you can't marry in Scotland at the end of this document, I can't find an equivalent list for England, all the information is split over the different marriage acts.

Thebrowntrout · 09/04/2016 17:26

The incest laws are a bit outdated.

lljkk · 09/04/2016 18:56

My dad's little sister got off with Dad's little brother (sis & bro not otherwise related to each other). Would have outraged their parents if more than one evening :).

puddingbunny · 09/04/2016 19:31

Yes, cousin marriages were common in the 19th century and prior, but they also didn't have much divorce then. My concern given your brother's relationship history would be that this will all end in tears and lead to divisions within the extended family. For that reason I think they are both being quite selfish and moving far too quickly, especially since there are kids involved. The ick factor is neither here nor there really, I would find it weird hooking up with a cousin too but whatever, it's not my life.

It's not your place to say anything as it will only cause more drama and push them closer together. I do feel for you though.